Anonymous wrote:A certain song title attributed to Michael Jackson comes immediately to mind.

Dirty Diana???

8-10x per year does not sound that bad. My marriage is nearly sexless. Intercourse has happened twice since October. I am DH and would like more, but can not get DW in the mood.

Anonymous wrote:" If only doing it 8-10x a year... well that's actually not really awful either. "

You think 8-10 X per year is not bad? Wow, I wish that was my husband's opinion! He wants it 3-4X per week - minimum. Any less and he classifies me as a withholding spouse. I am like PP who just has no libido. I am always too tired and frankly - while I care for DH - the honeymoon is over. We are parents, roomates, business partners - but hardly soulmates or lovers. I almost wish he would get some on the side - just to get it out of his system.....

OP here. I want it 3-4x per week but would be fine with once a week. Many classify 8-10x per year as virtually sexless. For me that is certainly withholding.

Anonymous wrote:Great question. I"m a WS but it's not for any reason other than simple lack of desire. but nothing "tastes good" any more. Not food, not drinks, not masturbation. I think I have a medical problem.

DH looks at porn nightly. I WISH I had desire. I WISH there was a female viagra.

I'm not depressed. I like doing stuff, don't sleep too much, am not angry...but I am under a lot stress related to childcare so maybe that's part of it. Also, my pill is not really working like it used to work...maybe that's part of it.

IDK.

This is me too, so annoying. I am just recently getting some desire back. But up until now I didn't even want to masturbate. I guess some hormones are kicking in, finally. But it just about ruined my marriage. And honestly, if DH had gone elsewhere for sex I wouldn't have blamed him, it was a looong dry spell

"denying sex more than 8-10 times per year to their spouse"

Does this mean denying TO 8-10x a year, or turning down 8-10x/year? If the latter, that doesn't sound that bad. You could still be doing it a lot. If only doing it 8-10x a year... well that's actually not really awful either.

I do have sympathy who have been involuntarily celibate for 1 year+ (and no medical issues w/ spouse)... in those cases I still don't think infidelity is excusable but it's not right what the other spouse is doing either. But once a month? That doesn't seem like a big deal.

Woman here, who doesn't get much and who would be happy with even 1x per week. Not awful? Are you kidding? It is awful. I feel like I am always suffering. If you don't think it seems like a big deal, think of something you crave and desire and want terribly, and then think of always being denied that thing.

If I were going through a temporary dry spell, like post baby, I would expect him to have faith and wait it out. If I totally refused for a year, I would expect him to leave me (assuming I wasn't even trying). If he was just not getting as much as he wanted but I was being reasonable (say 2x per week vs 5x per week) I would expect him to meet me in the middle and not see his sex drive as more important than mine. If he was just bored and wanted some strange ... I might consider that, but only if it augmented our joint sex life.

Anonymous wrote:" If only doing it 8-10x a year... well that's actually not really awful either. "

You think 8-10 X per year is not bad? Wow, I wish that was my husband's opinion! He wants it 3-4X per week - minimum. Any less and he classifies me as a withholding spouse. I am like PP who just has no libido. I am always too tired and frankly - while I care for DH - the honeymoon is over. We are parents, roomates, business partners - but hardly soulmates or lovers. I almost wish he would get some on the side - just to get it out of his system.....

Well, I'm a woman and not in this situation on either side so I'm just saying hypothetically speaking. I would imagine only 8-10x/year could be frustrating but you could live with it.

Do I count? I've always wanted sex less than my spouse even when we were dating. I'm talking he's interested daily, I'm interested 3-4 times a week. We had two kids in 3 years and he pretty much did no parenting and wasn't particularly kind or understanding to how exhausted and drained I was. He didn't believe me either when I said it still hurt for a few months after the birth or that even a year plus later nursing affected my libido. Even when he felt like I was withholding, it's because we were doing it 1-2 a week instead of nightly like he wanted.

In retrospect, it was a communication issue. I heard, I want sex (read: any sex, not just sex with you). You'd better start putting out because these are my needs. How nice it would have been to hear that he understood how stressed I was and how could he help so I could relax enough to remember how to be a wife, to hear that he wanted sex so much with ME and not just as a basic need.

I felt like I was screaming "I need help!!!!" and he never stepped up. If he did try parenting, he ended up stomping around and yelling at the kids and being generally miserable and acting put upon. My desire for him was nil based on his complete disrespect for my needs.

Anyway, do I count as a withholding spouse? How much of withholding is which spouse's fault? I just think we need to be careful about saying to a spouse "you are signing your partner up for a lifetime of no sex and unless you let him/her sleep around you are a selfish horrible person." In many cases, I would suggest that the person who needs more sex is partly responsible for changing his/her behavior too.

" If only doing it 8-10x a year... well that's actually not really awful either. "

You think 8-10 X per year is not bad? Wow, I wish that was my husband's opinion! He wants it 3-4X per week - minimum. Any less and he classifies me as a withholding spouse. I am like PP who just has no libido. I am always too tired and frankly - while I care for DH - the honeymoon is over. We are parents, roomates, business partners - but hardly soulmates or lovers. I almost wish he would get some on the side - just to get it out of his system.....

"denying sex more than 8-10 times per year to their spouse"

Does this mean denying TO 8-10x a year, or turning down 8-10x/year? If the latter, that doesn't sound that bad. You could still be doing it a lot. If only doing it 8-10x a year... well that's actually not really awful either.

I do have sympathy who have been involuntarily celibate for 1 year+ (and no medical issues w/ spouse)... in those cases I still don't think infidelity is excusable but it's not right what the other spouse is doing either. But once a month? That doesn't seem like a big deal.

I would like to understand too. When I went through a dry spell, I gave my spouse permission to go elsewhere. I never thought it was fair to deny him and ask him to be faithful.

Great question. I"m a WS but it's not for any reason other than simple lack of desire. but nothing "tastes good" any more. Not food, not drinks, not masturbation. I think I have a medical problem.

DH looks at porn nightly. I WISH I had desire. I WISH there was a female viagra.

I'm not depressed. I like doing stuff, don't sleep too much, am not angry...but I am under a lot stress related to childcare so maybe that's part of it. Also, my pill is not really working like it used to work...maybe that's part of it.

IDK.

That's not enough after awhile, PP.

A certain song title attributed to Michael Jackson comes immediately to mind.

Despite the inflammatory title this thread is meant to pose a serious question to people in otherwise happy marriages who are denying sex more than 8-10 times per year to their spouses. What would you consider an appropriate and respectful expression of your husband or wife's sexuality? Do you encourage him or her to seek other outlets? If you know the lack makes your partner chronically unhappy what makes you certain that person will stay? I would really like to get the Withholding Spouse perspective.