in one of my first comments, i specifically asked to show me stats that mass voter fraud is a problem in our election system and nobody has done so.

these are attempts to fix a problem that doesnt exist and would take a massive conspricacy to put in effect to have a real impact on an election.

you can argue with all these little examples you want but tell me exactly where we have a problem that needs fixing before i entertain you. illegals cannot vote. if your name isnt at the polling place, you cant vote period.

Anonymous wrote:12:06 i agree with what you said and i dont like addressing the issue on the matter of race cause thats an easy opening for some republicans to play gotcha and move the entire discussion along that line.

as you stated its not race. its class.

many of us on here take things for granted cause we have cars and IDs up the wazoo but most americans dont have the same ease to get around and do things like the rest of us. adding more to a very simple process only turns people away. hell it may turn "regular" people like us off if they want to take it further and require a state issue ID seperate from drivers license to vote

You can get get state issued ids with photos if you don't have or qualify for a drivers license or permit. What about people getting welfare or food stamps? Photo id on food stamp electronic cards is also an issue-even though recipients have cards. Welfare photo id?

What about working poor ? You know people used to buy paper bonds at banks. What about the elderly who don't use computers? I guess they can't buy them anymore.

Anonymous wrote:
So how do we then confirm that the person voting is the person that they claim to be? What is stopping Democrat GOTV to grabbing a bunch of poor black people from the Houston wards and busing them to a polling station and having them all vote?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HK_VT81Pk

What is stopping Republicans from doing that? You know it was the Republican Michael Steele who bussed poor black people from Philadelphia to masquerade as his supporters (though, they didn't actually vote).

Large scale vote fraud through impersonation is difficult to organize because the fraudulent voters will need to know the name and address of a registered voter that will not be showing up to vote. They need to memorize that info sufficiently to regurgitate it to a poll worker. There are so few cases of this sort of fraud that it is not worth even discussing.

How about a birth certificate or SS card?

Anonymous wrote:12:06 i agree with what you said and i dont like addressing the issue on the matter of race cause thats an easy opening for some republicans to play gotcha and move the entire discussion along that line.

as you stated its not race. its class.

many of us on here take things for granted cause we have cars and IDs up the wazoo but most americans dont have the same ease to get around and do things like the rest of us. adding more to a very simple process only turns people away. hell it may turn "regular" people like us off if they want to take it further and require a state issue ID seperate from drivers license to vote

So how do we then confirm that the person voting is the person that they claim to be? What is stopping Democrat GOTV to grabbing a bunch of poor black people from the Houston wards and busing them to a polling station and having them all vote?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HK_VT81Pk

12:06 i agree with what you said and i dont like addressing the issue on the matter of race cause thats an easy opening for some republicans to play gotcha and move the entire discussion along that line.

as you stated its not race. its class.

many of us on here take things for granted cause we have cars and IDs up the wazoo but most americans dont have the same ease to get around and do things like the rest of us. adding more to a very simple process only turns people away. hell it may turn "regular" people like us off if they want to take it further and require a state issue ID seperate from drivers license to vote

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://webfarm.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-12/texas-voter-identification-law-is-blocked-by-justice-department-as-biased.html

What is discriminatory about having to prove who you are? I can't drive without ID, or board a plane.

For a number of reasons:

1) If you are poor and black, you're less likely to drive or fly to begin with. You may not have ID.
2) If you are poor and black, and take time out to vote but forget your ID, you may not have time to go back to the polling station again.
3) The U.S. Constitution doesn't require you to present ID to exercise your right to vote. Square that with the 15th Amendment, please.

It's not "poor and black", it's just "poor". The poor are less likely to have state issued ID. Many of them don't drive and have no reason to pay money (especially money they cannot afford) to get a driver's license when they don't drive. And a photo ID from the MVA still costs money. There are more people below the poverty line that lean Democratic than lean Republican so Democrats tend to try to fight such legislation. As for your point #2, just to clarify, many of the poor take public transit to get to voting stations and it isn't just a quick trip in the car back home to get the ID and back. And many of them have very little flexibility in when they can vote because of when they work. They have a small window in which they can get to the polling stations when they're open.

In answer, it's not discriminatory to have to prove who you are. It is discriminatory to require any citizen to have to pay a fee of any sort (even a driver's license registration fee) in order to exercise their Constitutional right to vote. Those people who cannot see this problem clearly have never looked at the issues that affect the roughly 15% of the US citizen population that fall below the poverty line. If you have a state issued ID that is free, then a lot of the objections to these types of laws will go away. Until then, it *IS* discriminatory.

I don't know about the administration but I object to it because I see it as a naked political decision to reduce the number of votes for Democrats in response to the manufactured myth of mass voter fraud.

Re: the above:

From convicted felons we also take away freedom, the right to bear arms, etc. Are those not rights?

No, a 16 or 17 year old would have to show proof of age when he/she registers to vote. If they go and vote under an older sibling's name, then would they get caught? Probably not, assuming the older sibling does not vote.

Age of majority- probably for the same reason one cannot get married (without parental permission), join the military, etc. I don't think driving a car is the same, although being charged as adult is.

Illegals voting- how will they register to vote and be on the voting lists? What name will they give when they show up at the polls?

you still need to register and vote regardless so i dont think anobody is proposing making voting an exercise where you just show up, not even give them your name and vote.

second the ID problem would cause a mess for everyone as i stated. sure the majority of folks impacted will be minorities and old people but dont tell me your average person who is use to just giving their name isnt going to be impacted as well.

plus illegals have the ability to get an ID and drivers license so if the issue is that then voting is not even the first issue we need to fix

Anonymous wrote:i wondered this myself for a second but then was swayed otherwise.

the biggest thing is that the timing of these laws is suspect. most of these states want to pass voter ID laws on the verge of an election which already will create confusion and discrimination for the fact that some people will be unaware and show up like they usually do and be turned away. this can happen with any and everybody, not just minorities and old people.

second, the system isnt broken so why are we attempting to fix it? find me and dont pontificate, stats where elections have been impacted by people voting saying they are someone else? its very minor.

finally, the right to vote shouldnt be some complicated maze of a process. most states require specific forms of state issues ID and other nonsense which will only turn people off or turn people away. the right to vote is exactly that a right and we shoulnt make it so complicated that people dont want to do it

IF voting is a right then why do we take it away from convicted felons? And what if I'm a 16 or 17yr old kid, can't I just go and vote without an ID? And why is the age of majority for voting 18, not 17? If I can drive a car and get charged as an adult shouldn't I be able to vote? That complicates the process. Also in a state like Texas what's to stop illegals from voting if they don't have to prove who they really are? Also aren't the Democrats playing politics and in essence admitting that a chunk of the voting bloc is made up of illegal aliens?

Anonymous wrote:http://webfarm.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-12/texas-voter-identification-law-is-blocked-by-justice-department-as-biased.html

What is discriminatory about having to prove who you are? I can't drive without ID, or board a plane.

For a number of reasons:

1) If you are poor and black, you're less likely to drive or fly to begin with. You may not have ID.
2) If you are poor and black, and take time out to vote but forget your ID, you may not have time to go back to the polling station again.
3) The U.S. Constitution doesn't require you to present ID to exercise your right to vote. Square that with the 15th Amendment, please.

think of freedom of speech. we have the free right to say what we want (the concequences of what we say is not what is guaranteed. folks always confuse that), but what would that right look like if we had to sign paperwork and go through a process before ensuring that we can go around saying whatever we want? that right is then restricted and that is sort of like the voter ID issue

i wondered this myself for a second but then was swayed otherwise.

the biggest thing is that the timing of these laws is suspect. most of these states want to pass voter ID laws on the verge of an election which already will create confusion and discrimination for the fact that some people will be unaware and show up like they usually do and be turned away. this can happen with any and everybody, not just minorities and old people.

second, the system isnt broken so why are we attempting to fix it? find me and dont pontificate, stats where elections have been impacted by people voting saying they are someone else? its very minor.

finally, the right to vote shouldnt be some complicated maze of a process. most states require specific forms of state issues ID and other nonsense which will only turn people off or turn people away. the right to vote is exactly that a right and we shoulnt make it so complicated that people dont want to do it

http://webfarm.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-12/texas-voter-identification-law-is-blocked-by-justice-department-as-biased.html

What is discriminatory about having to prove who you are? I can't drive without ID, or board a plane.