Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But does learning disability = inability to learn manners? What about adult parents with learning disabilities, can they teach manners if it is assumed that they cannot learn manners?

Most children with neurological disorders/delays are emotionally delayed as well. They tantrum and have more emotional outbursts for longer periods of time. They also have difficulty with impulse control and understanding appropriate vs inappropriate behaviors. Maturity helps, but until they hit that critical age when maturity sets in, it's incredibly difficult. Just go look at the special needs board here. 90% of them drug their kids because they can't control their children.

Throwing a penalty flag here. The decision to give your ADHD (or similar) child medicine is not an easy one, but if it helps them be more available for learning and feel better about themselves and exercise self-control and be less impulsive, then the positives outweigh the negatives. Your snide comment is off the mark.

I remember being at the mall with my then 3 year old DD. She stood next to me in line quietly while we made our purchase. A pregnant woman next to me said "wow, she's so well behaved, what's your secret?"

20 minutes later, DD was having a loud meltdown in Macy's and I was hoping that mom would walk by so she wouldn't think I was a perfect parent or that even exists, ha!

IME behavior is more tied to nurture, but less the teaching right from wrong and more (1) rest, (2) nutrition, (3) knowing when to not take your kids out.

Anonymous wrote:

about 10 years ago, I would have agreed with what you are saying. We are in the age of neurological disorders now. Try telling someone with an ADD/ADHD/Autistic child that they lack parenting skills and you'll sooner get your teeth knocked out. You have NO IDEA what it is like to raise kids with neurodysfunction....and it is rampant these days. 1 in 5 kids have a learning disability and the parenting techniques that were used in the 1990s just do not apply to these kids.

I mostly agree with this, but I'll take it further. It doesn't even take an official neurodyfunction to make a kid wiggly. In fact, I worry a little bit about the kind of parent who CAN force a preschooler to sit still for an hour, if the child is not inclined to do so on his own. What sort of pressure do you need to bring to bear on them to so repress their nature?

I have taught my child to say please and thank you, to respect her elders, to wait her turn, to share her toys, etc. That's learned. She is empathetic and articulate-- that's innate, and it made my teaching much easier, and every day I thank my lucky stars. She is also FOUR. I can't even imagine what threats or punishments it would take to make her act like something other than a four-year-old, which to me means impulsive and mercurial and physically active. As another PP said, there are those divine intervention days, when an onlooker could assume she is The Perfect Child. And there are other days when some stranger is undoubtedly rolling their eyes and mentally composing a DCUM post about how crap parents like me are destroying the next generation.

Anonymous wrote:

But does learning disability = inability to learn manners? What about adult parents with learning disabilities, can they teach manners if it is assumed that they cannot learn manners?

Most children with neurological disorders/delays are emotionally delayed as well. They tantrum and have more emotional outbursts for longer periods of time. They also have difficulty with impulse control and understanding appropriate vs inappropriate behaviors. Maturity helps, but until they hit that critical age when maturity sets in, it's incredibly difficult. Just go look at the special needs board here. 90% of them drug their kids because they can't control their children.

I think there is a greater genetic component than you might think. And perhaps you *want* to think so, so that you feel better about yourself as a parent. But that's a different topic of discussion.

Before I had my son, I thought everything was nurture, not nature. But now that I have him, I am constantly surprised by how much I believe to be nature, not nurture. [Yes, it's just my unscientific opinion, nothing more.]

I'm one of the very lucky mothers who has a really easy child, at least so far, who knows what he'll be like when he's older. (He's now almost 2.) I never ever did any sleep training, and he sleeps amazingly well. I've been putting him to bed at 8pm since he was maybe 5 or 6 months old, and he goes down without a peep. When he wakes up in the morning, he just waits quietly in his bed until I wake up to get him. He also plays contently by himself. And I've never ever tried to "train" any of these behaviors.

I do think it's genetic, because my MIL says my DH was exactly the same and my SIL's daughter is also the same. Just quiet and content. Never a complaint. Still, I wonder what DS will be like in his teenage years, bc I know DH was a mother's worst nightmare as a teen.

I agree that it is temperament that is genetic, not behavior. But an easy temperament is SO much easier to train for good behavior. So, don't beat yourself up about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was at a small, casual restaurant for lunch and noticed a family with a baby and preschooler. The children were exceptionally well behaved. Both children were quiet, ate their food etc. without fuss and the parents did not seem to do much "directing". So this made me curious. How much is it luck in regards to the children's personalities or how much is it learned behavior? I'm especially curious about the preschooler because my DC would never be able to sit still in such a setting.

Children do not come into this world well- or badly-behaved. It is the job of their parents to teach them manners, which, GASP, GASP, leads to the exceptionally well behaved children you saw. You have to be consistent and remind them until good manners become permanent knowledge and habit. You are the only reason your child cannot behave properly in a public setting.

about 10 years ago, I would have agreed with what you are saying. We are in the age of neurological disorders now. Try telling someone with an ADD/ADHD/Autistic child that they lack parenting skills and you'll sooner get your teeth knocked out. You have NO IDEA what it is like to raise kids with neurodysfunction....and it is rampant these days. 1 in 5 kids have a learning disability and the parenting techniques that were used in the 1990s just do not apply to these kids.

But does learning disability = inability to learn manners? What about adult parents with learning disabilities, can they teach manners if it is assumed that they cannot learn manners?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was at a small, casual restaurant for lunch and noticed a family with a baby and preschooler. The children were exceptionally well behaved. Both children were quiet, ate their food etc. without fuss and the parents did not seem to do much "directing". So this made me curious. How much is it luck in regards to the children's personalities or how much is it learned behavior? I'm especially curious about the preschooler because my DC would never be able to sit still in such a setting.

Children do not come into this world well- or badly-behaved. It is the job of their parents to teach them manners, which, GASP, GASP, leads to the exceptionally well behaved children you saw. You have to be consistent and remind them until good manners become permanent knowledge and habit. You are the only reason your child cannot behave properly in a public setting.

about 10 years ago, I would have agreed with what you are saying. We are in the age of neurological disorders now. Try telling someone with an ADD/ADHD/Autistic child that they lack parenting skills and you'll sooner get your teeth knocked out. You have NO IDEA what it is like to raise kids with neurodysfunction....and it is rampant these days. 1 in 5 kids have a learning disability and the parenting techniques that were used in the 1990s just do not apply to these kids.

Anonymous wrote:I was at a small, casual restaurant for lunch and noticed a family with a baby and preschooler. The children were exceptionally well behaved. Both children were quiet, ate their food etc. without fuss and the parents did not seem to do much "directing". So this made me curious. How much is it luck in regards to the children's personalities or how much is it learned behavior? I'm especially curious about the preschooler because my DC would never be able to sit still in such a setting.

Children do not come into this world well- or badly-behaved. It is the job of their parents to teach them manners, which, GASP, GASP, leads to the exceptionally well behaved children you saw. You have to be consistent and remind them until good manners become permanent knowledge and habit. You are the only reason your child cannot behave properly in a public setting.

Both, but it's hard to tell unless you can observe a family regularly over a period of time.

Anonymous wrote:Last night I was at a restaurant as well. My 7YO ASD DS was deeply engrossed in his iTouch, as was DD. We were enjoying a rare quiet moment at dinner, much different than previous trips where DS was trying to pull the fire alarm and playing with the window blinds.

Another family was seated next to us and their DS is tantruming for whatever reason. It was funny how she looked over at me in amazement at how well my kids were behaving. She asked if we could trade....I smiled and said "sure, but you have no idea what you are in for"

What you saw might have been a rare moment of calmness, just like we experienced last night. Rarely do we get to enjoy a dinner without some emotional outbursts or inappropriate behavior.

I don't call it genetic or learned, but a moment of divine intervention.

Your post made me smile. It is that way for us too.

Last night I was at a restaurant as well. My 7YO ASD DS was deeply engrossed in his iTouch, as was DD. We were enjoying a rare quiet moment at dinner, much different than previous trips where DS was trying to pull the fire alarm and playing with the window blinds.

Another family was seated next to us and their DS is tantruming for whatever reason. It was funny how she looked over at me in amazement at how well my kids were behaving. She asked if we could trade....I smiled and said "sure, but you have no idea what you are in for"

What you saw might have been a rare moment of calmness, just like we experienced last night. Rarely do we get to enjoy a dinner without some emotional outbursts or inappropriate behavior.

I don't call it genetic or learned, but a moment of divine intervention.

Yup.

Thread closed.

Temperament is genetic. Behavior is not.

I was at a small, casual restaurant for lunch and noticed a family with a baby and preschooler. The children were exceptionally well behaved. Both children were quiet, ate their food etc. without fuss and the parents did not seem to do much "directing". So this made me curious. How much is it luck in regards to the children's personalities or how much is it learned behavior? I'm especially curious about the preschooler because my DC would never be able to sit still in such a setting.