Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures have different standards. Which culture is right? As immigration into different countries by vastly different cultures increases I am afraid we will see more of this. If you move to another culture, you have to assimilate a bit to local customs. I am not sure what Norway did is right as I haven't read the child protective services' file on the family. I cannot imagine that cosleeping is that taboo in Norway though!

I will say many people from other countries come here to graduate school (China, India, Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan to name some from my classes) and expect their traditions and cultural norms to be honored here. Our culture is vastly different from theirs.

Wasn't there a case here in the US where a Scandinavian woman who left her baby in a stroller outside of a restaurant while she was inside (because that is what they do in her home country) was arrested and her child taken from her?

We also find appalling and criminalize things that are ok in other countries like honor killings.

I read that some state, maybe CA, was considering taking into account the cultural background of criminals during trial.

I would f*cking riot in the streets if they do that here!! Moral relativism is not good!! Our laws pertain to all regardless of cultural background!

They would still suffer the legal consequences of their actions but the cultural background would be considered maybe in sentencing. Sort of like how they sometimes consider why an abused spouse killed their abuser. They get jail time for the murder but maybe not as long.

Anonymous wrote:What does "hand fed" mean?

Using their hands to feed like eating with hands??

What does "hand fed" mean?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures have different standards. Which culture is right? As immigration into different countries by vastly different cultures increases I am afraid we will see more of this. If you move to another culture, you have to assimilate a bit to local customs. I am not sure what Norway did is right as I haven't read the child protective services' file on the family. I cannot imagine that cosleeping is that taboo in Norway though!

I will say many people from other countries come here to graduate school (China, India, Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan to name some from my classes) and expect their traditions and cultural norms to be honored here. Our culture is vastly different from theirs.

Wasn't there a case here in the US where a Scandinavian woman who left her baby in a stroller outside of a restaurant while she was inside (because that is what they do in her home country) was arrested and her child taken from her?

We also find appalling and criminalize things that are ok in other countries like honor killings.

I read that some state, maybe CA, was considering taking into account the cultural background of criminals during trial.

I would f*cking riot in the streets if they do that here!! Moral relativism is not good!! Our laws pertain to all regardless of cultural background!

Anonymous wrote:OP here: The parents say that he was exhibiting what may be/have been behavior that would place him on the autism spectrum, but it's hard to find more details. Another article said child care authorities saw the mother slap the toddler at some point. The prevailing theme in the news coverage is that the parents, or perhaps the mother, were probably having problems managing two children, particularly if the reports of her post-partum depression are true. But how Barnevernet got from there to obtaining a court order taking the children from the parents for 18 years is stunning. On its own, its draconian, but the children are not Norwegian citizens! At the very least, the Indian embassy should have been alerted. The children's grandparents and extended family, who live in India, appealed to the Indian president and the Indian foreign ministry, which then became involved in brokering a deal to have custody given to the father's brother (the case got more attention as it got closer to March, when the parents' visas were due to expire). The father's brother is now in Norway, but I don't think he has custody yet. Another news report said the uncle would be the first family member the children have seen in 9 months.

If you read further, you'll see that this is not the first time Barnevernet has come under scrutiny, particularly in its dealings with families from other countries. They seem to wield enormous power.

They are living in Norway. They are under Norwegian laws. The laws of India don't mean anything in Norway. Just like the laws of America don't stretch to other countries. You take risks when you move to another country! Sorry but it is true.

For example, my SIL lives in India. She is American but she has severe restriction to her rights concerning banking, real estate, and her children. I am tired of people thinking all countries and cultures are the same. They aren't!

Anonymous wrote:Gee I bf and co-slept as well. I seriously hope there is more to this story, or my children would have been taken from me if I had lived in Norway too.

From what I read this was not the reason. I agree with the PPs that it sounds like the mom was in over her head.

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures have different standards. Which culture is right? As immigration into different countries by vastly different cultures increases I am afraid we will see more of this. If you move to another culture, you have to assimilate a bit to local customs. I am not sure what Norway did is right as I haven't read the child protective services' file on the family. I cannot imagine that cosleeping is that taboo in Norway though!

I will say many people from other countries come here to graduate school (China, India, Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan to name some from my classes) and expect their traditions and cultural norms to be honored here. Our culture is vastly different from theirs.

Wasn't there a case here in the US where a Scandinavian woman who left her baby in a stroller outside of a restaurant while she was inside (because that is what they do in her home country) was arrested and her child taken from her?

We also find appalling and criminalize things that are ok in other countries like honor killings.

I read that some state, maybe CA, was considering taking into account the cultural background of criminals during trial.

OP here: yes, that was what I read in a news report. It's important to read as much of the news as possible. Clearly, on some level, the parents were in over the head and/or Norwegian child protective authorities saw things they didn't like and made some very dangerous assumptions. The approach is incredibly punitive, and quite frightening, but this is not a first for Norway's child protective service. Read some of the materials by Marianne Haslev Skånland, a Norwegian scholar who is affiliated with the Nordic Committee for Human Rights and who has been tracking this issue for many years. There are reports of similar forced separation out of Sweden and the UK as well. There appears to be a blurry line between a mission to protect the children's interests and perpetuating cultural ignorance. There were many ways the child protection workers could have dealt with this, but they chose a particularly horrifying route that preyed on the vulnerabilities of an immigrant family with limited ability to appeal the court decision.

Anonymous wrote:Gee I bf and co-slept as well. I seriously hope there is more to this story, or my children would have been taken from me if I had lived in Norway too.

I doubt those were the reasons. PP (OP I think) stated the mother hit her child IN FRONT of the child protective service employee. Clearly, not acceptable! Especially if the child is on the spectrum. It sounds like the mother was in over her head.

Gee I bf and co-slept as well. I seriously hope there is more to this story, or my children would have been taken from me if I had lived in Norway too.

Different cultures have different standards. Which culture is right? As immigration into different countries by vastly different cultures increases I am afraid we will see more of this. If you move to another culture, you have to assimilate a bit to local customs. I am not sure what Norway did is right as I haven't read the child protective services' file on the family. I cannot imagine that cosleeping is that taboo in Norway though!

I will say many people from other countries come here to graduate school (China, India, Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan to name some from my classes) and expect their traditions and cultural norms to be honored here. Our culture is vastly different from theirs.

OP here: The parents say that he was exhibiting what may be/have been behavior that would place him on the autism spectrum, but it's hard to find more details. Another article said child care authorities saw the mother slap the toddler at some point. The prevailing theme in the news coverage is that the parents, or perhaps the mother, were probably having problems managing two children, particularly if the reports of her post-partum depression are true. But how Barnevernet got from there to obtaining a court order taking the children from the parents for 18 years is stunning. On its own, its draconian, but the children are not Norwegian citizens! At the very least, the Indian embassy should have been alerted. The children's grandparents and extended family, who live in India, appealed to the Indian president and the Indian foreign ministry, which then became involved in brokering a deal to have custody given to the father's brother (the case got more attention as it got closer to March, when the parents' visas were due to expire). The father's brother is now in Norway, but I don't think he has custody yet. Another news report said the uncle would be the first family member the children have seen in 9 months.

If you read further, you'll see that this is not the first time Barnevernet has come under scrutiny, particularly in its dealings with families from other countries. They seem to wield enormous power.

Is there more to this story? They said the child was acting 'erratic' in school in one of the articles? Maybe there was something they were concerned about? Or was it just the cosleeping?

This is unbelievable. DH is Indian and my heart aches for this family!

Thanks for sharing, OP!

I was struck by a story I read in the Indian press last weekend, which hasn't been covered here. The issues are personal to so many of us in this forum that I wanted to make you aware of it because there are bound to be similar cases in the U.S. Anurup and Sagarika Bhattacharya are Indian citizens living in Norway, where Anurup is a geologist for Halliburton. Almost 9 months ago, Norwegian child protection authorities took the couple's children--a 4-month-old girl (who was breastfeeding) and a 2-year-old boy--and placed them in separate foster homes, declaring that the parents could not see them until they were 18 years old. The agency, known as Barnevernet, cited several reasons for taking the children, including that they were fed by hand and shared a bed with their parents, both of which are standard cultural practice in India. Newspaper accounts say other reasons included that the children wore ill-fitting clothes, did not have sufficient space to play, and were not emotionally attached to their parents. At least one newspaper account said that Sagarika was suffering from post-partum depression.

The children, like their parents, are Indian citizens. This all adds up to a frightening case of government overreaching, particularly in the case of immigrants (I've yet to see an explanation of why the Norwegian government didn't consult the Indian embassy in Oslo before taking such draconian action). India's president and foreign ministry got involved, and although the two countries have reached an agreement, the Bhattacharyas have yet to see their children.

For more info, you can Google "Norway Indian child" or you can visit a new community page on Facebook (you do NOT need to be on Facebook to view the page and read the links):

http://www.facebook.com/ImmigrantFamiliesChildProtectiveServices

Thanks very much for indulging a long post.