Anonymous wrote:This suggests the concerns about class size are overwrought:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/external_publications/EP20080015.html

Did you read this? It just talks about correlation of parent involvement and class size. The concerns are more about student achievement and long-term outcomes for students. All of the studies I have read indicate that class size DOES matter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But moving J and N students there isn't on the table. Opening Madison Community Center is on the table. That would be devastating to Jamestown for one thing, decimating the school, splitting cohorts, and diverting PTA dollars. Also, Madison is an archaic facility lacking in things like whiteboards that are prevalent at Jamestown. And, it would displace a coop and adult day-care at that center. Very disruptive.

So Jamestown (and Taylor, I'm guessing) parents who are involved in the PTA now would just lose interest if their kids were at another school? Why?

Also, I'm assuming that by "whiteboards" you mean Smartboards? I'm pretty sure those are still available for sale. They could be added. And the coop and adult daycare could be moved to Woodmont (or elsewhere), which is what, 10 minutes away? Why is that "very disruptive"?

Amen! Voice of reason! We are an upcoming Jamestown K family. We would be fine of they renovated Madison and reopened it as an elementary. If they kept the classes and school small, it could actually soften the blow for some families.

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me how Glebe is "substandard" to Jamestown. What is exactly better?

Resources, student quality, and test scores. Full stop.

It is obviously substandard because it has a few more poor kids. Aiyiiiiiiii.

Can someone please tell me how Glebe is "substandard" to Jamestown. What is exactly better?

Anonymous wrote:
But moving J and N students there isn't on the table. Opening Madison Community Center is on the table. That would be devastating to Jamestown for one thing, decimating the school, splitting cohorts, and diverting PTA dollars. Also, Madison is an archaic facility lacking in things like whiteboards that are prevalent at Jamestown. And, it would displace a coop and adult day-care at that center. Very disruptive.

So Jamestown (and Taylor, I'm guessing) parents who are involved in the PTA now would just lose interest if their kids were at another school? Why?

Also, I'm assuming that by "whiteboards" you mean Smartboards? I'm pretty sure those are still available for sale. They could be added. And the coop and adult daycare could be moved to Woodmont (or elsewhere), which is what, 10 minutes away? Why is that "very disruptive"?

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why anyone would be up in arms about their child going to Glebe. As far as we are concerned it is a hidden gem and has typically smaller classes 18 last year in k and 20 this year in First. Teachers are great and energetic and the building is brand new. It got the 2011 board of education excellence award. So what if all the kids are not white.

Glebe is a substandard school to Jamestown and Nottingham, full stop.

But moving J and N students there isn't on the table. Opening Madison Community Center is on the table. That would be devastating to Jamestown for one thing, decimating the school, splitting cohorts, and diverting PTA dollars. Also, Madison is an archaic facility lacking in things like whiteboards that are prevalent at Jamestown. And, it would displace a coop and adult day-care at that center. Very disruptive.

This suggests the concerns about class size are overwrought:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/external_publications/EP20080015.html

I don't know why anyone would be up in arms about their child going to Glebe. As far as we are concerned it is a hidden gem and has typically smaller classes 18 last year in k and 20 this year in First. Teachers are great and energetic and the building is brand new. It got the 2011 board of education excellence award. So what if all the kids are not white.

When I was in elementary school, Woodmont Elementary was closed and its students were absorbed by Taylor (at the time both were very underpopulated - can you image?) There was a lot of attention given to the process of combining the schools to make the transition easier, and I think it went just fine.

Also, in the past when Arlington has redistricted, they typically have allowed grandfathering, that is allowing younger siblings to attend the same school as their older siblings if they are still at the school. I also experienced this when our neighborhood was redistricted from W-L to Yorktown and my older sibling had graduated several years before I was to attend so I went off to Yorktown.

I think opening new neighborhood schools, particularly in N. Arlington, would alleviate the crowding problems and would be more palatable to a lot of people than moving kids around to other existing school districts. The truth is I think most families wouldn't mind getting switched from Jamestown to Taylor to Nottingham or vice versa, but when you start telling them they might have to send their kids to Glebe or Ashlawn or Barrett they get all worked up. New facilities that drew from the surrounding communities would probably be perceived as just fine, and in some cases, families might prefer the chance to send their kids to school in a new facility.

I attended. One dad who spoke called for decreasing class sizes, not just keeping as is - totally agree with him. If you feel strongly, why didn't you attend or speak? What peer-reviewed research have you seen that indicates class size does not matter?

I actually prefer the idea of reopening centers or relocatables to decrease class size. I think it as to be done carefully to avoid splitting siblings, but all academic research I have ever seen indicates that smaller classes are better for ALL students - low, medium, and high achievers.

http://www2.ed.gov/pubs/ClassSize/academic.html

A few findings I have seen as I researched this topic:
- Most studies found benefits for classes under 20 - Arlington is already over that. I would like to see them get class sizes lower.
- A 2009 study published in the American Journal of Education reported significant positive effects of smaller classes on the achievement gap through eighth grade.  The results consistently indicated that all types of students - low, medium, and high achievers - benefit in later grades from being in smaller classes in earlier grades.

- A 2010 study by the National Bureau of Economic Research looked at outcomes from nearly 12,000 students in Tennessee.  Smaller classes in Kindergarten were shown to lead to greater likelihood of attending college, owning a home and a 401K as adults more than 20 years later.

- In 2007, the American Journal of Public Health  reported that reducing class sizes may be more cost-effective than most public health and medical interventions, with  large savings in health care costs and almost two years of additional life for students who were in smaller classes in the early grades.

Anonymous wrote:By disruptive, do you mean having kids move schools? Would you feel differently if they opened them gradually with just K and 1st grade and growing the school as those kids move up until it's fully populated K-5? I didn't attend, since we're still a few years away from kindergarten, but are following the issues with interest. I think the difference between a class with 26 or 28 kids of a wide range of abilities is a big difference from a class with 20-21 kids or a private school class of 16-18 with potential fewer disparities.

We are happy with the school we are zoned for in terms of performance, but are concerned about size. And, if they do redistrict, we know that we are in a neighborhood likely to be impacted. DH and I have already begun discussing our thoughts on the various options, including the local parochial or applying for private.

I would hate that! My kids would be split up...older one at different school.

Anonymous wrote:By disruptive, do you mean having kids move schools? Would you feel differently if they opened them gradually with just K and 1st grade and growing the school as those kids move up until it's fully populated K-5? I didn't attend, since we're still a few years away from kindergarten, but are following the issues with interest. I think the difference between a class with 26 or 28 kids of a wide range of abilities is a big difference from a class with 20-21 kids or a private school class of 16-18 with potential fewer disparities.

We are happy with the school we are zoned for in terms of performance, but are concerned about size. And, if they do redistrict, we know that we are in a neighborhood likely to be impacted. DH and I have already begun discussing our thoughts on the various options, including the local parochial or applying for private.

I don't know how they would use the "new" schools. But, yes, I think it would be disruptive to remove a sizeable portion of a school and put it in a new building. Would decimate the PTA, for one thing.

The thing about class size is this: Intuition tells you that smaller class sizes are better, ergo larger class sizes are "bad." But the empirical studies done in this area don't support this, except in very limited circumstances where the kids are disadvantaged. At the end of the day, teachers still teach the same way. Things like more ESL, higher poverty rates, more divorces (single parent homes) and households in which both parents work are bigger contributors to less achievement. At least that's what the studies indicate.

By disruptive, do you mean having kids move schools? Would you feel differently if they opened them gradually with just K and 1st grade and growing the school as those kids move up until it's fully populated K-5? I didn't attend, since we're still a few years away from kindergarten, but are following the issues with interest. I think the difference between a class with 26 or 28 kids of a wide range of abilities is a big difference from a class with 20-21 kids or a private school class of 16-18 with potential fewer disparities.

We are happy with the school we are zoned for in terms of performance, but are concerned about size. And, if they do redistrict, we know that we are in a neighborhood likely to be impacted. DH and I have already begun discussing our thoughts on the various options, including the local parochial or applying for private.

Did anyone attend the school board meeting last night about capacity issues and options?

I'm concerned that some of the PTAs are whipping up objections to increasing class sizes, which don't seem to be evidence-based concerns. I'd rather absorb another child in class than some of the other more disruptive options, including reopening community centers. Although the trailers are a good option too -- those trailers are really nice these days, nicer than classrooms in many cases.