jsteele wrote:By the way, this is at least the second time that Romney has lied about a commercial during a debate. I started a thread in this forum regarding an earlier incident in which Romney claimed not to have seen a commercial but then went on to describe the commercial almost word for word.

And he started that description - like 30 seconds after denying seeing it - with something like "From what I saw of it..."

Apparently he's much too dumb or disorganized to get away with the amount of lying he does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:06 - I understand the point you're making about it being a disadvantage to speak a neighborhood language if that is not the language of the powerful. But, speaking as a sociologist, very few sociologists would ever describe it the way that Gingrich did.

The point by itself is legitimate. The way it was expressed by Gingrich suggested an underlying bigotry.

True. I meant more that the germ "ghetto" does not always have the same derogatory meaning as we apply it in popular culture. We can talk about the Jewish ghettoes in 1930's Europe to describe a group of people isolated within a neighborhood without it being a slight to the residents.

6:51 again - Yes, that's what I took you to mean.
The question of how to relate to the dominant culture has always fascinated me. Assimilate (if allowed to)? Become a separatist? Go back and forth changing style and language depending on where you are? It's a problem that white Anglo-Americans like me don't experience as part of our daily lives - except, of course, as a woman, I have had to make choices about whether to "talk like a man" when applying for jobs! Newt talking about it so blithely is quite aggravating.

Anonymous wrote:06 - I understand the point you're making about it being a disadvantage to speak a neighborhood language if that is not the language of the powerful. But, speaking as a sociologist, very few sociologists would ever describe it the way that Gingrich did.

The point by itself is legitimate. The way it was expressed by Gingrich suggested an underlying bigotry.

True. I meant more that the germ "ghetto" does not always have the same derogatory meaning as we apply it in popular culture. We can talk about the Jewish ghettoes in 1930's Europe to describe a group of people isolated within a neighborhood without it being a slight to the residents.

06 - I understand the point you're making about it being a disadvantage to speak a neighborhood language if that is not the language of the powerful. But, speaking as a sociologist, very few sociologists would ever describe it the way that Gingrich did.

The point by itself is legitimate. The way it was expressed by Gingrich suggested an underlying bigotry.

Anonymous wrote:
But, to defend Gingrich, he said "the language of a ghetto". By that, he could mean that it is disadvantageous to speak a language that is only widely used in your local neighborhood and therefore limits job opportunities in the rest of your town or city. In that sense, he is using the term "ghetto" like a sociologist or political scientist would.

Gingrich tried to explain himself in similar terms, although he didn't admit to using the term "ghetto". But, I wasn't really commenting on the accuracy of the commercial. I was laughing at Romney denying that he had seen the commercial and then being told by Blitzer that the commercial ended with Mitt saying, "I'm Mitt Romney and I approved this message". I immediately thought of the above scene from Austin Powers.

By the way, this is at least the second time that Romney has lied about a commercial during a debate. I started a thread in this forum regarding an earlier incident in which Romney claimed not to have seen a commercial but then went on to describe the commercial almost word for word.

First, I had to google to see what Gingrich actually said. I got this from Fox News:

In his speech to the National Federation of Republican Women, Gingrich advocated making English the official language, a position he still holds, and added: "We should replace bilingual education with immersion in English so people learn the common language of the country and they learn the language of prosperity, not the language of living in a ghetto."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/26/fact-check-period-out-place-in-gop-debate/#ixzz1kdD4KZcL

OK, so Gingrich kind of did say that. I suppose you could claim that he didn't really mean Spanish, but then what language was he talking about, Laotian?

But, to defend Gingrich, he said "the language of a ghetto". By that, he could mean that it is disadvantageous to speak a language that is only widely used in your local neighborhood and therefore limits job opportunities in the rest of your town or city. In that sense, he is using the term "ghetto" like a sociologist or political scientist would.

As for Romney, I think one of the pundits on CNN said it best when he pointed out that a President doesn't get to say "I'm not familiar with that memo". If it came out of the White House, it's your name on it and you take ownership.

During tonight's debate Wolf Blitzer asked Romney about a commercial claiming that Newt Gingrich had called Spanish the language of the ghetto. Romney said he hadn't seen the commercial and that there are a lot of people out there making commercials. Blitzer came back and said his staff had reviewed the commercial and it was from the Romney campaign and had Mitt saying that he approved the message at the end of it. I couldn't help thinking of this Austin Powers scene: