Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 12:49     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would like to know what the anti-medicine crowd thinks is the answer when you have a moderate to extreme ADHD case and you've exhausted all other options. We have done therapy, OT, lots of physical activity, elimination diets, behavior plans, sensory tools. Are you suggesting you just let your otherwise bright, likable child flounder and not reach their potential?


Mom of autistic child here....not aspergers or HF autism, moderate functioning. I would consider my child to be more difficult to handle than any extreme case of ADHD. My answer to this post would be this.....OT, Therapy, physical activity, behavior plans and sensory tools are NOT substitutes for alternative medicine. Nor would I consider an "elimination diet" to be any therapeudic means of treating a child. This list is not exhaustive at all. I could sit here and list off a few dozen things, not to mention the hundreds of supplements, that are possibilities.

Has this OP ever ventured to explore a DAN! doctor or DAN! protocol? Was there any allergy testing? Any stool samples for beneficial flora, anaerobic bacterias, parasites, yeast/fungus or PANDAS? Any heavy-metal testing done? Any testing for celiacs? EGG for possible seizure activity during sleep? Nutritional deficiencies? Leaky Gut?

Since there was zero mention of any alternative approaches listed at all, and no medical testing that I could possibly be aware of, I can only assume that no other medicinal approaches had been considered other than medication. Only a parent who has BTDT with medical testing can speak the language of exploring all the options. It is a given that any parent would run to "therapy" first, as that is the starting place for everyone. It's no shock to me that it failed because there was no emphasis put on the health of the child, only their behavior.

If behavior were the only aspect involved in ADHD then #1. it's parenting and #2. How can you explain someone's behavior when they drink alcohol or take drugs? We KNOW it is not a behavior problem, so don't get your pants in a fluff and say that I'm calling you a bad parent...No one here is a bad parent. There is a gut/brain connection that is not being addressed in these children. Medical intervention is needed, but not psychological drugs. How is an antidepressent or stimulant going to fix a leaky gut? I think that if the right questions are asked, you can get down to some good detailed medical explanations of WHY the child has a particular disorder.

To list off just a FEW of the alternative interventions, see below. If you don't know what they mean, that should give you some level of your knowledge of what types of therapy exist out there for neurological disorders. Picking one of these is not going to cure any child. But picking a few that seem to fit your child will set healing in motion. Once you've gotten a taste of what it looks like to see your child heal, it gets exciting.

1. HBOT
2. Homeopathy
3. DMSA/ALA
4. Enzyme therapy
5. NAET
6. Neuromodulation Technique
7. Antiviral Therapy
8. Antifungal therapy
9. Methyl B12 shots
10. Essential Oils
11. Craniosacral therapy
12. neurofeedback

etc, etc, etc.



That seems like putting a child through a lot of unproven tests and treatments for a condition that already has a treatment that has been proven safe and effective. You are going through a lot of trouble to avoid medications that are safer than half of what you've listed. I think you are so stuck on the idea that the medications are bad that you are not considering what is common sense.
I am especially suprised that you believe treating a child with antifungals or antivirals or injecting B12 is a better alternative to stimulants! Those medications have serious albeit rare side effects.

Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 12:48     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure -- I have no kids, so I have zero knowledge of what it's like to have a child who isn't doing well in school and to want to fix that problem.

But as an outside observer (pretty much all my friends have their kids on some kind of med), I wonder if the aggregate result hasn't been to reset the bar about what constitutes "appropriate behavior" and "achievement"?

All of you expect your kids not only to perform, but to excel -- if Johnny isn't in the 98th percentile, then something's wrong and we must fix it. If Janie doesn't test at least 3 years above her grade, she'll never get into Harvard.

And the schools now seem to feel that any child who doesn't behave like a doped up zombie is a distraction in the classroom.

I'm just not sure you can know what long-term use of amphetamines will have on these kids.


This is the big unanswered question. The pharmaceutical companies with all their $ (not to mention dubious research practices such as medical ghostwriting and only publishing favorable results) have been unable to prove the long term safety of stimulant meds. On the other hand, there has been plenty of research showing negative short and long term side effects such as impaired growth, including growth of the brain.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 12:22     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Full disclosure -- I have no kids, so I have zero knowledge of what it's like to have a child who isn't doing well in school and to want to fix that problem.

But as an outside observer (pretty much all my friends have their kids on some kind of med), I wonder if the aggregate result hasn't been to reset the bar about what constitutes "appropriate behavior" and "achievement"?

All of you expect your kids not only to perform, but to excel -- if Johnny isn't in the 98th percentile, then something's wrong and we must fix it. If Janie doesn't test at least 3 years above her grade, she'll never get into Harvard.

And the schools now seem to feel that any child who doesn't behave like a doped up zombie is a distraction in the classroom.

I'm just not sure you can know what long-term use of amphetamines will have on these kids.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 12:12     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Anonymous wrote:
Curious as to how much of these therapies your health insurance covers?

And would you pursue only natural/alternative treatments for yourself if, God forbid, you developed cancer or other serious illness (for example, Steve Jobs apparently tried a juice/supplements diet for 9 months when diagnosed with his cancer)?

I don't have the time to dig, but I disagree with previous posters that the studies about ADHD meds are incomplete. As with many other parents, I don't think medication is a cure-all (and we do some vitamins/supplements as well). ADHD is a neurological condition. It responds in many cases to medication. It also requires other interventions because it rarely exists on its own. Most kids with ADHD have coexisting conditions (such as anxiety) and often have learning disabilities as well. Between school, how we structure our home life, and medication, DS is doing pretty well.



Health insurance doesn't cover a dime of it. I didn't expect it to either. But after reading how much money people put into private ST, OP, PT, etc, I feel pretty good about how I spent my money.

If I ever developed cancer, I would only pursue natural/alternative methods. I'd never do chemo or radiation. Once you've submersed yourself in the alternative community, you realize that there are soooo many success stories regarding people who the medical community had only given a few weeks to live. There are many ways to cure cancer and disease that the medical community will never allow into the public awareness with ease. They can't eliminate freedom of speech, so you can find the information if you look for it. But, you wont find it in U.S. Weekly, Southern Living Magazine, or on the evening news.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 11:42     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

1. HBOT
2. Homeopathy
3. DMSA/ALA
4. Enzyme therapy
5. NAET
6. Neuromodulation Technique
7. Antiviral Therapy
8. Antifungal therapy
9. Methyl B12 shots
10. Essential Oils
11. Craniosacral therapy
12. neurofeedback

etc, etc, etc.


So which of these approaches have worked on your child?



I cannot attribute any one method for all of the healing. But I will name a few that have had significant impacts. When we first began our journey into supplementation, I started with a natural antifungal called Threelac and I began using digestive enzymes. There was an immediate difference in focus, concentration, and eye-contact. Here we went from a 3YO child that was incapable of settling down to focus on a 30 minute elmo video to a child that was engaged and trying to sing along to the video. That was the FIRST DAY.

As time went on, we got more involved in enzyme therapy as that seemed the best method for dealing with viruses. After a year of using therapeudic enzymes, we were rid of intestinal measles and all stimming went away completely.

Tried MB12 shots....little to no success there for us. The negatives outweighed any visible benefits. Although, I have many friends who have had wonderful success with MB12 shots.

Tried eliminating gluten, casein, egg, nuts, soy for 6 months. We saw no difference, so we added everything back. It was obvious that allergies were not an issue for him.

During our first 3 years, we used Dr. Margaret Gennaro. She is a holistic/homeopathic DAN! doctor and medical pediatrician. She is in Fairfax. She was a lifesaver for us and opened my eyes to the medical issues involved in neurological disorders. She helped guide me to new alternative therapies and supplements including Neuromodulation Technique (NMT). NMT is an allergy elimination therapy. I attribute this for his lack of any visible allergies, food, seasonal, or otherwise.

Although I noticed no immediate difference with Craniosacral Therapy for him, I continue to take him a few times per year because it makes such a difference for ME when I go. It is my solution and replacement for a chiropractor, who in my opinion, has done more damage to my neck and back, than any injury I have ever sustained.

The gains we have made with the above (first 3 years) and then the past year of only using classical homeopathy ONLY, have been beyond what I could have ever expected at this point. My child no longer visually stims, no longer jumps and flaps, no longer has any coordination issues, zero problem with eye contact. He even taught himself to swim this year without any floatation devices. Homeopathy has been the best alternative medicine yet. The gains we've seen in the past year with speech are just indescribable. Yet, we have done zero ST outside of what the school provides.

What remains is a lack of conversational speech, lack of awareness of danger, not understanding what is appropriate vs inappropriate behavior, hyperactivity, and attention-seeking behaviors. This is amazing compared to the issues at hand a few years back. Removing the physical components has opened up so much healing for us. And now maturity is setting in as he is turning 7 soon.

The only things listed above that we have NOT tried are HBOT, NAET, and Neurofeedback. But as I have said, that list is very incomplete as far as therapies are concerned. Diet-wise, the only thing I do there is make sure that his Ph levels are balanced by giving lots of powdered greens supplements.

I don't suspect that anyone would find the success that we have in following this exact plan of action as it was custom taylored to fit my son's particular ailments/deficits/disease. But, I can promise that anyone who digs deep enough will find something they can work on and they will be able to affect positive change in their child's life.




Curious as to how much of these therapies your health insurance covers?

And would you pursue only natural/alternative treatments for yourself if, God forbid, you developed cancer or other serious illness (for example, Steve Jobs apparently tried a juice/supplements diet for 9 months when diagnosed with his cancer)?

I don't have the time to dig, but I disagree with previous posters that the studies about ADHD meds are incomplete. As with many other parents, I don't think medication is a cure-all (and we do some vitamins/supplements as well). ADHD is a neurological condition. It responds in many cases to medication. It also requires other interventions because it rarely exists on its own. Most kids with ADHD have coexisting conditions (such as anxiety) and often have learning disabilities as well. Between school, how we structure our home life, and medication, DS is doing pretty well.

Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 10:40     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I know he feels that I was holding my children


"My child"? Your's alone? How's the marriage doing?


I don't tell him how to do his job at work. He has to allow me some level of control in MY JOB...tending to the kids. He doesn't have the time to do the research involved in such an endeavor. He is increasingly thankful that I have put so much time, effort and dedication into the health of our children. Our marriage is very strong.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 10:37     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

1. HBOT
2. Homeopathy
3. DMSA/ALA
4. Enzyme therapy
5. NAET
6. Neuromodulation Technique
7. Antiviral Therapy
8. Antifungal therapy
9. Methyl B12 shots
10. Essential Oils
11. Craniosacral therapy
12. neurofeedback

etc, etc, etc.


So which of these approaches have worked on your child?



I cannot attribute any one method for all of the healing. But I will name a few that have had significant impacts. When we first began our journey into supplementation, I started with a natural antifungal called Threelac and I began using digestive enzymes. There was an immediate difference in focus, concentration, and eye-contact. Here we went from a 3YO child that was incapable of settling down to focus on a 30 minute elmo video to a child that was engaged and trying to sing along to the video. That was the FIRST DAY.

As time went on, we got more involved in enzyme therapy as that seemed the best method for dealing with viruses. After a year of using therapeudic enzymes, we were rid of intestinal measles and all stimming went away completely.

Tried MB12 shots....little to no success there for us. The negatives outweighed any visible benefits. Although, I have many friends who have had wonderful success with MB12 shots.

Tried eliminating gluten, casein, egg, nuts, soy for 6 months. We saw no difference, so we added everything back. It was obvious that allergies were not an issue for him.

During our first 3 years, we used Dr. Margaret Gennaro. She is a holistic/homeopathic DAN! doctor and medical pediatrician. She is in Fairfax. She was a lifesaver for us and opened my eyes to the medical issues involved in neurological disorders. She helped guide me to new alternative therapies and supplements including Neuromodulation Technique (NMT). NMT is an allergy elimination therapy. I attribute this for his lack of any visible allergies, food, seasonal, or otherwise.

Although I noticed no immediate difference with Craniosacral Therapy for him, I continue to take him a few times per year because it makes such a difference for ME when I go. It is my solution and replacement for a chiropractor, who in my opinion, has done more damage to my neck and back, than any injury I have ever sustained.

The gains we have made with the above (first 3 years) and then the past year of only using classical homeopathy ONLY, have been beyond what I could have ever expected at this point. My child no longer visually stims, no longer jumps and flaps, no longer has any coordination issues, zero problem with eye contact. He even taught himself to swim this year without any floatation devices. Homeopathy has been the best alternative medicine yet. The gains we've seen in the past year with speech are just indescribable. Yet, we have done zero ST outside of what the school provides.

What remains is a lack of conversational speech, lack of awareness of danger, not understanding what is appropriate vs inappropriate behavior, hyperactivity, and attention-seeking behaviors. This is amazing compared to the issues at hand a few years back. Removing the physical components has opened up so much healing for us. And now maturity is setting in as he is turning 7 soon.

The only things listed above that we have NOT tried are HBOT, NAET, and Neurofeedback. But as I have said, that list is very incomplete as far as therapies are concerned. Diet-wise, the only thing I do there is make sure that his Ph levels are balanced by giving lots of powdered greens supplements.

I don't suspect that anyone would find the success that we have in following this exact plan of action as it was custom taylored to fit my son's particular ailments/deficits/disease. But, I can promise that anyone who digs deep enough will find something they can work on and they will be able to affect positive change in their child's life.


Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 10:06     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Anonymous wrote:I know he feels that I was holding my children


"My child"? Your's alone? How's the marriage doing?
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 10:03     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would like to know what the anti-medicine crowd thinks is the answer when you have a moderate to extreme ADHD case and you've exhausted all other options. We have done therapy, OT, lots of physical activity, elimination diets, behavior plans, sensory tools. Are you suggesting you just let your otherwise bright, likable child flounder and not reach their potential?


Mom of autistic child here....not aspergers or HF autism, moderate functioning. I would consider my child to be more difficult to handle than any extreme case of ADHD. My answer to this post would be this.....OT, Therapy, physical activity, behavior plans and sensory tools are NOT substitutes for alternative medicine. Nor would I consider an "elimination diet" to be any therapeudic means of treating a child. This list is not exhaustive at all. I could sit here and list off a few dozen things, not to mention the hundreds of supplements, that are possibilities.

Has this OP ever ventured to explore a DAN! doctor or DAN! protocol? Was there any allergy testing? Any stool samples for beneficial flora, anaerobic bacterias, parasites, yeast/fungus or PANDAS? Any heavy-metal testing done? Any testing for celiacs? EGG for possible seizure activity during sleep? Nutritional deficiencies? Leaky Gut?

Since there was zero mention of any alternative approaches listed at all, and no medical testing that I could possibly be aware of, I can only assume that no other medicinal approaches had been considered other than medication. Only a parent who has BTDT with medical testing can speak the language of exploring all the options. It is a given that any parent would run to "therapy" first, as that is the starting place for everyone. It's no shock to me that it failed because there was no emphasis put on the health of the child, only their behavior.

If behavior were the only aspect involved in ADHD then #1. it's parenting and #2. How can you explain someone's behavior when they drink alcohol or take drugs? We KNOW it is not a behavior problem, so don't get your pants in a fluff and say that I'm calling you a bad parent...No one here is a bad parent. There is a gut/brain connection that is not being addressed in these children. Medical intervention is needed, but not psychological drugs. How is an antidepressent or stimulant going to fix a leaky gut? I think that if the right questions are asked, you can get down to some good detailed medical explanations of WHY the child has a particular disorder.

To list off just a FEW of the alternative interventions, see below. If you don't know what they mean, that should give you some level of your knowledge of what types of therapy exist out there for neurological disorders. Picking one of these is not going to cure any child. But picking a few that seem to fit your child will set healing in motion. Once you've gotten a taste of what it looks like to see your child heal, it gets exciting.

1. HBOT
2. Homeopathy
3. DMSA/ALA
4. Enzyme therapy
5. NAET
6. Neuromodulation Technique
7. Antiviral Therapy
8. Antifungal therapy
9. Methyl B12 shots
10. Essential Oils
11. Craniosacral therapy
12. neurofeedback

etc, etc, etc.


So which of these approaches have worked on your child?
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 09:33     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Anonymous wrote:I would like to know what the anti-medicine crowd thinks is the answer when you have a moderate to extreme ADHD case and you've exhausted all other options. We have done therapy, OT, lots of physical activity, elimination diets, behavior plans, sensory tools. Are you suggesting you just let your otherwise bright, likable child flounder and not reach their potential?


Mom of autistic child here....not aspergers or HF autism, moderate functioning. I would consider my child to be more difficult to handle than any extreme case of ADHD. My answer to this post would be this.....OT, Therapy, physical activity, behavior plans and sensory tools are NOT substitutes for alternative medicine. Nor would I consider an "elimination diet" to be any therapeudic means of treating a child. This list is not exhaustive at all. I could sit here and list off a few dozen things, not to mention the hundreds of supplements, that are possibilities.

Has this OP ever ventured to explore a DAN! doctor or DAN! protocol? Was there any allergy testing? Any stool samples for beneficial flora, anaerobic bacterias, parasites, yeast/fungus or PANDAS? Any heavy-metal testing done? Any testing for celiacs? EGG for possible seizure activity during sleep? Nutritional deficiencies? Leaky Gut?

Since there was zero mention of any alternative approaches listed at all, and no medical testing that I could possibly be aware of, I can only assume that no other medicinal approaches had been considered other than medication. Only a parent who has BTDT with medical testing can speak the language of exploring all the options. It is a given that any parent would run to "therapy" first, as that is the starting place for everyone. It's no shock to me that it failed because there was no emphasis put on the health of the child, only their behavior.

If behavior were the only aspect involved in ADHD then #1. it's parenting and #2. How can you explain someone's behavior when they drink alcohol or take drugs? We KNOW it is not a behavior problem, so don't get your pants in a fluff and say that I'm calling you a bad parent...No one here is a bad parent. There is a gut/brain connection that is not being addressed in these children. Medical intervention is needed, but not psychological drugs. How is an antidepressent or stimulant going to fix a leaky gut? I think that if the right questions are asked, you can get down to some good detailed medical explanations of WHY the child has a particular disorder.

To list off just a FEW of the alternative interventions, see below. If you don't know what they mean, that should give you some level of your knowledge of what types of therapy exist out there for neurological disorders. Picking one of these is not going to cure any child. But picking a few that seem to fit your child will set healing in motion. Once you've gotten a taste of what it looks like to see your child heal, it gets exciting.

1. HBOT
2. Homeopathy
3. DMSA/ALA
4. Enzyme therapy
5. NAET
6. Neuromodulation Technique
7. Antiviral Therapy
8. Antifungal therapy
9. Methyl B12 shots
10. Essential Oils
11. Craniosacral therapy
12. neurofeedback

etc, etc, etc.

Anonymous
Post 11/16/2011 07:31     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Jeff was not censoring your posts or 'gagging' you. He was performing the functions of a moderator, keeping posts on topic, preventing a hijack and helping to maintain the norms of this forum. I found those posts and your post here judgmental and offensive. Those are not the norms of this forum and I'm tired of posts like yours discouraging participation and interfering with inquiries for on-topic information and support. The moderator is free to prohibit posts like yours and was generous in giving you two warnings. If you don't like it, start your own version of DCUM and you can do whatever you like.

Like the PPs, we pursued other interventions and treatments before trying medication. It was the treatment of last choice. DH and I researched it extensively and came to the conclusion that the benefits outweighed the risks. DH's ADHD wasn't diagnosed until after our oldest was diagnosed and it's been almost traumatic for DH to watch DS struggle as he did at the same age. He was ready to medicate sooner than I was in order to spare DS the suffering he endured because of his untreated ADHD. In fact, DH started his ADHD medication well before DS. Taking the emotion out of the discussion, medicating for ADHD is still the best course of action for our DS. It's not been a 'quick fix' by any means and we still have to provide significant behavioral support. I don't know anyone who found medication to be a silver bullet. It's certainly not for my DH. But, it has made a significant improvement in all our lives. I understand that's not the choice you made and you're happy with that choice. To each his own.

I noticed that a follow up question from the OP of the other thread remains unanswered by the anti-medication crowd:

I would like to know what the anti-medicine crowd thinks is the answer when you have a moderate to extreme ADHD case and you've exhausted all other options. We have done therapy, OT, lots of physical activity, elimination diets, behavior plans, sensory tools. Are you suggesting you just let your otherwise bright, likable child flounder and not reach their potential?
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 22:31     Subject: Re:S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Ditto that medication was not a quick fix for my kid and that I didn't participate in the other thread. For many years medication was contraindicated for my son so we tried all kinds of alternatives to make him successful. Eventually, other medical problems were resolved to the point where we could try medication. The transformation was amazing. My son went from performing well below grade level to above. He went from not being able to follow school rules to being fairly successful at it. But, it's not a panacea. We still have to use behavioral interventions to accomplish what most kids do naturally.

Medication is not evil and those of us who use it with our kids are just trying to do what all parents do - help,our kids be as successful as possible.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 22:22     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Medication for us was by no means a quick fix.

We did years of OT, therapy, counseling, therapy, Diet change, etc.

It was not enough. DS could not manage the class routine, navigate the halls, behave at recess, ride the school bus without getting written up, or focus in class. Changed schools. Sat in the office a lot. Self esteem dropped. Became "that bad kid." We've tried a few medicines. They've helped tremendously, but are by no means perfect. Please don't paint all parents who turn to medication as one part of a solution as seeking a quick fix. We love our kids too and are just doing what we think is best for our own.

(I did not participate in the previous thread.)
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 21:48     Subject: Re:S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Thanks for starting another thread. I was a surprised at how the last thread was censored. Usually I don't bother to respond to these ADHD medication debates because this board leans firmly on the side of pro-medication.

Some of the posts from the pro-medication crowd made on the censored post that I wanted to respond to before we were told to stop the discussion:

"There are quite a few articles that have been published in the last couple years that show the kids with ADHD who take medication have better academic and social outcomes."


Where are the studies that show long-term social and academic benefits? You won't find them. There are some studies that show small, immediate gains but nothing showing lasting, long-term benefits.

"These are not new medications, they have been in use for decades and are quite safe. What isn't safe is leaving ADHD untreated because it has been demonstrated over and over again that kdis with undtreated ADHD develop substance abuse issues at elevated rates. They self-medicate."


Research has not show "over and over again" that un-medicated kids go on to develop substance abuse issues at higher rates. There have been few studies and the results are contradictory; some research has also shown that even a short exposure to stimulant medication in childhood is correlated with later substance abuse.



Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 20:42     Subject: S/O - not agreeing on ADHD Medication - uncensored
Several times it was mentioned on the SN thread "When you and your spouse don't agree about ADHD medication" that if we wanted to debate the merits of medication, we should start a new thread. So here it is. It seemed awfully unfair that anyone who questioned medication was "gagged", but anyone who was pro-medication could speak their mind.

My DH and I did not come to an agreement on medication. I know he feels that I was holding my children back by not medicating, but now that DS1 is in middle school, he is focused and doing well, without any medication. My approach has been one of natural supplementation, detoxification and balancing Ph levels. I know that many parents here don't have the time to research natural approaches very thoroughly, especially if their doctors aren't mentioning these options to them in the first place, and I know that most parents want a quick fix to their kid's problems, but when and how did we become a society so dependent on chemicals for our health? It just seems so backwards to me.