Anonymous
11/09/2011 16:22
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
I assume, of course, you weren't busy making him feel like less of a man for only making 25% of your income or things along that line. I will say being married to a spendthrift that isn't a good partner is bound to be draining -- you can get by on one, I think, but a guy who's neither a good household manager or a good/honest/kind lover is not going to stay married long.
But his refusal to cut off contact with this woman doesn't seem to help much, given that you're expecting sexual fidelity from him.
The therapist is supposed to play neutral, maybe be devil's advocate. You'll need to look at your behavior and find where it can improve -- and so will he of course (possibly more given that he's had an affair and doesn't seem the least bit sorry.)
But his refusal to cut off contact with this woman doesn't seem to help much, given that you're expecting sexual fidelity from him.
The therapist is supposed to play neutral, maybe be devil's advocate. You'll need to look at your behavior and find where it can improve -- and so will he of course (possibly more given that he's had an affair and doesn't seem the least bit sorry.)
Anonymous
11/09/2011 12:21
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
OP,
I'm divorced and joint custody is complicated and long.
Look, think about the power dynamic in the marriage. He feels like a failure. The affair made him feel successful. I'm not condoning the affair, not in the least. What can he do to feel better about his role in the marriage? Does he want to work but can't find work?
I'm divorced and joint custody is complicated and long.
Look, think about the power dynamic in the marriage. He feels like a failure. The affair made him feel successful. I'm not condoning the affair, not in the least. What can he do to feel better about his role in the marriage? Does he want to work but can't find work?
Anonymous
11/09/2011 11:49
Subject: Re:6 months post-affair and still struggling
OP, I'm really sorry for all of this, ugh. It's hard to tell at this point where you will end up, but one thing I would suggest is that you consult a family law attorney for informational purposes/guidance. Given the significant difference in your earnings and assets, it would behoove you (again, even if you end up deciding to stay w/ your DH) to understand what the applicable law is in your jursidiction re: divorce, marital property, alimony/maintenance, child custody, etc. It will cost you a few hundred bucks for a consultation, but could save you thousands, or hundreds of thousands, if you end up deciding to go your own way.
I also agree w/ PPs that if you don't feel the therapist is helping, you should try a new one. There is such wide variation in approach and personality of therapists. I wouldn't just assume (not that you are, but a PP alluded to this) that the one you are seeing now is doing her/his job by remaining totally impartial and downplaying the huge breach of faith on your DH's part.
GL, you sound like a really good person, and I hope you find your way through this to a positive next stage of your life, whether with or without DH.
I also agree w/ PPs that if you don't feel the therapist is helping, you should try a new one. There is such wide variation in approach and personality of therapists. I wouldn't just assume (not that you are, but a PP alluded to this) that the one you are seeing now is doing her/his job by remaining totally impartial and downplaying the huge breach of faith on your DH's part.
GL, you sound like a really good person, and I hope you find your way through this to a positive next stage of your life, whether with or without DH.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 09:41
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
Anonymous wrote:
I hope you're not continuing to provide the expensive extras DH enjoys.
Granted, I'm just now at the tail end of my own divorce, so I know that my experience is coloring my response to you. But, my dear sister, please do not act as though it is upon you to navigate this whole thing. He has GOT to bring something to the process or it's just a huge waste of your energies.
I'd say, take a big step back. Stop "working on it" and let him know that it is his turn. Put things in place that incentivize action on his part---if only by removing some of the luxury of the status quo.
To provide a stereotype that resonates nonetheless: Men don't understand words, but action. Get a new therapist for yourself. Drop the couples work. Make beautiful plans for the children and yourself this holiday season. Allow DH to experience a bit of what life is going to be like unless he seriously rethinks his arrogant position.
You had me at "300%" sister.
Agree with this totally. I'm the other cheated on poster. As soon as he told me, I gave my husband a list of my terms - including that he was to find and pay for a therapist and a full STD check. He was to schedule the appointments, get me there, get childcare if necessary, everything. All I do is show up. It was really really difficult for me to put this all one him since I'm a big planner, but I think it was one of the best things I did. I told him he had "made this bed" and now he was to fix it. And he stepped up.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 09:41
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
OP, you need someone who understands infidelity. There is no way to go straight from discovery to forgiveness, without your husband acknowledging your pain.
Try Doug Cohen in Georgetown. I've mentioned him here before. He was the one who told my husband that his affair was a "bomb going off in the marriage." There is no way to address the underlying issues in the relationship before you clean up the mess of the affair.
And get to survivinginfidelity. Seriously great support and information there.
Try Doug Cohen in Georgetown. I've mentioned him here before. He was the one who told my husband that his affair was a "bomb going off in the marriage." There is no way to address the underlying issues in the relationship before you clean up the mess of the affair.
And get to survivinginfidelity. Seriously great support and information there.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 09:31
Subject: Re:6 months post-affair and still struggling
You need a new therapist, OP !
Anonymous
11/09/2011 09:31
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
I hope you're not continuing to provide the expensive extras DH enjoys.
Granted, I'm just now at the tail end of my own divorce, so I know that my experience is coloring my response to you. But, my dear sister, please do not act as though it is upon you to navigate this whole thing. He has GOT to bring something to the process or it's just a huge waste of your energies.
I'd say, take a big step back. Stop "working on it" and let him know that it is his turn. Put things in place that incentivize action on his part---if only by removing some of the luxury of the status quo.
To provide a stereotype that resonates nonetheless: Men don't understand words, but action. Get a new therapist for yourself. Drop the couples work. Make beautiful plans for the children and yourself this holiday season. Allow DH to experience a bit of what life is going to be like unless he seriously rethinks his arrogant position.
You had me at "300%" sister.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 09:24
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
Anonymous wrote:Just an observation: You clearly seem to want and expect the therapist to take your side in all of this. That's not a therapist's role. And you may perceive that your therapist is taking your husband's side, but s/he is not. A therapist doesn't take sides.
Observing that an affair is a symptom of a troubled marriage is not the same thing as saying a rapist was asking for an attack by wearing a short skirt, so while I realize in your mixed-up mind (and I mean that gently) that seems like an apt comparison, it's actually a deeply offensive one. I wouldn't repeat that in real life to anyone, because to most people you WILL sound crazy. It's actually quite common for a therapist to note the affair is the symptom and not the cause.
You're angry, I get it. You were betrayed, and you're entitled. But if you truly want this to work, you're going to have open yourself up to self-reflection and not internalize every unflattering observation about you. Leaving him is also a valid course of action, especially given how you feel. But, I would just caution that leaving won't be a panacea either. You need to heal yourself as much as your marriage. And that begins by lowering your dukes a bit.
I'm 7:36 and 7:42 (also experiencing healing from an affair) and I actually think this post has some great points. Yes, this is not your fault (not my fault either). I was experiencing the same bad marriage problems that my husband was experiencing and I chose to stay faithful. He was the one who cheated. But I definitely had to see his cheating as a symptom of a greater problem - one that I played a role in creating. I have had to be very self-reflecting and work hard to change along with my husband, even though (as my therapist frequently says), it is not my FAULT that this happened and my admitting I need to change in some ways does NOT excuse his behavior. But if I really want the marriage I think I want, some of it is on me.
And the PP is right - leaving won't instantly make everything better. A few of my friends are going through divorces and only one of them is truly doing better at this point. I am working hard on my marriage for one, for the kids, but two, because I think that in my case anyway, staying married (assuming my husband keeps working hard too) will be better than leaving him and dealing with custody of two young kids and all that. But of course, others experiences may be different.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 09:14
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So I found out my husband was cheating 6 months ago and I feel exactly the same now as I did when I found out in May...anger and total humiliation. We've been in counseling and he's apologized a few times ("I know what I did was dumb and that I made a mistake"), but overall I get the sense that he's forgotten it and can't understand why I'm still thinking about it. And our therapist started out by talking about how the affair was likely a result of prior problems in our marriage (which apparently I was too dense to see because I didn't know we had any problems)...and I felt like that was similar to saying a rape victim has something to do with the rape because she wore a short skirt. I mean....there may or may not have been problems in our marriage, but that's not the same as having an affair. And our counseling keeps focusing on our marriage in general. So for the first month my husband was still having contact with this woman and was acting like I was the "gestapo" for wanting to go through his phone and was the crazy one saying he needed to cut off all ties. Plus our therapist keeps giving his complaints merit that I'm so controlling and focusing on me and my issues while ignoring this blatant violation of our marriage vows.
Fast forward 6 months and I'm still totally devastated and feel like I'm married to a complete loser. I've tried, in earnest, to get up to speed on how to "recover" by reading books, am alone paying for our marriage counseling and my own therapy (to the tune of $325 a week which is NOT easy for us to afford) and can't even get my husband to find the time (his words, not mine) to read one book that I think articulates really well what I am feeling.
We have two little kids, which is definitely the only reason I'm even bothering. But I outearn my husband by 300% and am the sole owner of our house. He has very expensive taste and loves to spend money, but makes very little of his own and constantly berates me that I save "too much" and don't know how to live in the present. At this point I don't even love him any more and feel like he's just a huge drain on me emotionally and financially. He's a good dad, but I can definitely do all this stuff without him and often wish he weren't around since he's usually just complaining about his job not being fulfilling enough or how he doesn't have this or that.
I guess I'm venting more than asking for help. I feel like I already know that divorce seems like a true improvement over the life I'm leading currently. I just feel so angry ALL THE TIME. I feel like I'm being used, and yet I should likely be angry with myself for letting this charade continue. Don't I deserve better than this? IS this normal for me to feel this way? Am I throwing in the towel too fast because I'm still so hurt? Am I seeing the wrong marriage therapist? And yet I've already invested so much time and $$$, I'm loaathe to start over with somebody else? Did I mention I'm also trying to hold down a demanding job and I don't actually have time to see all these therapists??? Can you hear the resentment? I feel like I'm married to a selfish asshole and I just want out to try to cut my losses.
Just an observation: You clearly seem to want and expect the therapist to take your side in all of this. That's not a therapist's role. And you may perceive that your therapist is taking your husband's side, but s/he is not. A therapist doesn't take sides.
Observing that an affair is a symptom of a troubled marriage is not the same thing as saying a rapist was asking for an attack by wearing a short skirt, so while I realize in your mixed-up mind (and I mean that gently) that seems like an apt comparison, it's actually a deeply offensive one. I wouldn't repeat that in real life to anyone, because to most people you WILL sound crazy. It's actually quite common for a therapist to note the affair is the symptom and not the cause.
You're angry, I get it. You were betrayed, and you're entitled. But if you truly want this to work, you're going to have open yourself up to self-reflection and not internalize every unflattering observation about you. Leaving him is also a valid course of action, especially given how you feel. But, I would just caution that leaving won't be a panacea either. You need to heal yourself as much as your marriage. And that begins by lowering your dukes a bit.
Meant to say "rape victim" obviously.
Also agree with PPs that if your therapist isn't working for you to find a new one. But be sure you understand what a therapist is for.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 08:38
Subject: Re:6 months post-affair and still struggling
Please look for a new therapist. PP has some good points about you wanting the therapist to take sides but it also sounds like the therapist isn't hearing you and what you would like to focus on to move ahead.
Please also try and research the next counselor you pick and ask them about their own marriage. I say this because I have co-worker whose wife is a marriage counselor and they seriously have the worst marriage ever, hate each other as a couple and stay together for social and economic reasons. They both have no problem telling people this. And she spends all day telling couples how to better communicate!? I can't even imagine the damage she has done to some marriages. But she has plenty of clients bc people are desparate and just don't bother to really ask any questions about the therapists or their approach.
Please also try and research the next counselor you pick and ask them about their own marriage. I say this because I have co-worker whose wife is a marriage counselor and they seriously have the worst marriage ever, hate each other as a couple and stay together for social and economic reasons. They both have no problem telling people this. And she spends all day telling couples how to better communicate!? I can't even imagine the damage she has done to some marriages. But she has plenty of clients bc people are desparate and just don't bother to really ask any questions about the therapists or their approach.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 08:28
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
Anonymous wrote:So I found out my husband was cheating 6 months ago and I feel exactly the same now as I did when I found out in May...anger and total humiliation. We've been in counseling and he's apologized a few times ("I know what I did was dumb and that I made a mistake"), but overall I get the sense that he's forgotten it and can't understand why I'm still thinking about it. And our therapist started out by talking about how the affair was likely a result of prior problems in our marriage (which apparently I was too dense to see because I didn't know we had any problems)...and I felt like that was similar to saying a rape victim has something to do with the rape because she wore a short skirt. I mean....there may or may not have been problems in our marriage, but that's not the same as having an affair. And our counseling keeps focusing on our marriage in general. So for the first month my husband was still having contact with this woman and was acting like I was the "gestapo" for wanting to go through his phone and was the crazy one saying he needed to cut off all ties. Plus our therapist keeps giving his complaints merit that I'm so controlling and focusing on me and my issues while ignoring this blatant violation of our marriage vows.
Fast forward 6 months and I'm still totally devastated and feel like I'm married to a complete loser. I've tried, in earnest, to get up to speed on how to "recover" by reading books, am alone paying for our marriage counseling and my own therapy (to the tune of $325 a week which is NOT easy for us to afford) and can't even get my husband to find the time (his words, not mine) to read one book that I think articulates really well what I am feeling.
We have two little kids, which is definitely the only reason I'm even bothering. But I outearn my husband by 300% and am the sole owner of our house. He has very expensive taste and loves to spend money, but makes very little of his own and constantly berates me that I save "too much" and don't know how to live in the present. At this point I don't even love him any more and feel like he's just a huge drain on me emotionally and financially. He's a good dad, but I can definitely do all this stuff without him and often wish he weren't around since he's usually just complaining about his job not being fulfilling enough or how he doesn't have this or that.
I guess I'm venting more than asking for help. I feel like I already know that divorce seems like a true improvement over the life I'm leading currently. I just feel so angry ALL THE TIME. I feel like I'm being used, and yet I should likely be angry with myself for letting this charade continue. Don't I deserve better than this? IS this normal for me to feel this way? Am I throwing in the towel too fast because I'm still so hurt? Am I seeing the wrong marriage therapist? And yet I've already invested so much time and $$$, I'm loaathe to start over with somebody else? Did I mention I'm also trying to hold down a demanding job and I don't actually have time to see all these therapists??? Can you hear the resentment? I feel like I'm married to a selfish asshole and I just want out to try to cut my losses.
Just an observation: You clearly seem to want and expect the therapist to take your side in all of this. That's not a therapist's role. And you may perceive that your therapist is taking your husband's side, but s/he is not. A therapist doesn't take sides.
Observing that an affair is a symptom of a troubled marriage is not the same thing as saying a rapist was asking for an attack by wearing a short skirt, so while I realize in your mixed-up mind (and I mean that gently) that seems like an apt comparison, it's actually a deeply offensive one. I wouldn't repeat that in real life to anyone, because to most people you WILL sound crazy. It's actually quite common for a therapist to note the affair is the symptom and not the cause.
You're angry, I get it. You were betrayed, and you're entitled. But if you truly want this to work, you're going to have open yourself up to self-reflection and not internalize every unflattering observation about you. Leaving him is also a valid course of action, especially given how you feel. But, I would just caution that leaving won't be a panacea either. You need to heal yourself as much as your marriage. And that begins by lowering your dukes a bit.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 07:50
Subject: Re:6 months post-affair and still struggling
7:36 gave you great advice. You DO deserve better and you've got the wrong counselor. Your husband isn't stepping up to the plate and the counselor isn't holding him accountable or helping you heal. Wrong person and maybe the wrong husband. I know how incredibly painful that is and you did NOTHING to deserve that. You might think about getting your ducks in a row - develop an exit plan - before you break the news to your husband that you're considering divorce. You don't owe him anything. You and your kids deserve much better and 5 years from now, you'll remember this time as extremely painful but you will be happy again. You will.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 07:42
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
And OP - if he doesn't step up, you will be fine - maybe in time even better - on your own. And your kids will be too. Also, it helps me to know that we are not alone in facing infidelity in our marriage. As Im sure you've read, something like 60-70% of marriages will experience infidelity at some point. I never really got that stat until it happened to me. I always thought how could that be since I don't know anyone who's spouse has cheated? Well since it happened to me, I have told exactly two people in real life - my counselor and my best girl friend. People don't talk about it. Some variation of this happens in most marriages and of those for which it happens, only 35% last. So you are not alone - you do not need to feel embarrassed or like this was your fault. And if it doesn't work out, you will again not be alone.
Anonymous
11/09/2011 07:36
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
Hey OP - just wanted to reach out to you. My husband had a one night stand (well actually a three night stand) 5 months ago so I can sort of relate. It was just sex for my husband and he told me immediately and has been working his ass off ever since to prove that he wants me back. Even with all that he's done, I still feel angry and hurt and I still cry once a week about it. But I feel definite progress. For us, there were problems in our marriage beforehand but we are lucky that we have found a great marriage counselor who is working through both my feelings about the affair and our marriage issues in general. At this point, I feel like we are both relieved that it happened almost because we're getting to a place where the marriage feels stronger than ever. I would NOT be feeling this way if my husband wasn't acting 110% committed.
At the six month point you've given him enough time to prove he wants you back and it doesn't sound like he's acting in the ways you need him to. At this point, it sounds to me like for one you need a new counselor. Forget the money, it is worth every penny if you can either get to a great place with your husband OR get to a place where you are great on your own. This is not something to skimp on. But since it doesn't sound like he's been putting up anything at all, I think the next thing you need to do is give him a wake up call. It sounds like he's been riding the gravy train as it were and now he has made a major mistake and YOU are still paying for HIS mistake. No more. Tell him how you feel. Demand that he listen and help you through these feelings or you WILL leave him. And know that you will. Because it will not get any better if something doesn't change. Have you read about 180? Something like that might help you in thinking about what you need to do. Not to be manipulative, but to help you start demanding what you need and letting him know that you are important too.
At the six month point you've given him enough time to prove he wants you back and it doesn't sound like he's acting in the ways you need him to. At this point, it sounds to me like for one you need a new counselor. Forget the money, it is worth every penny if you can either get to a great place with your husband OR get to a place where you are great on your own. This is not something to skimp on. But since it doesn't sound like he's been putting up anything at all, I think the next thing you need to do is give him a wake up call. It sounds like he's been riding the gravy train as it were and now he has made a major mistake and YOU are still paying for HIS mistake. No more. Tell him how you feel. Demand that he listen and help you through these feelings or you WILL leave him. And know that you will. Because it will not get any better if something doesn't change. Have you read about 180? Something like that might help you in thinking about what you need to do. Not to be manipulative, but to help you start demanding what you need and letting him know that you are important too.
Anonymous
11/08/2011 23:57
Subject: 6 months post-affair and still struggling
So I found out my husband was cheating 6 months ago and I feel exactly the same now as I did when I found out in May...anger and total humiliation. We've been in counseling and he's apologized a few times ("I know what I did was dumb and that I made a mistake"), but overall I get the sense that he's forgotten it and can't understand why I'm still thinking about it. And our therapist started out by talking about how the affair was likely a result of prior problems in our marriage (which apparently I was too dense to see because I didn't know we had any problems)...and I felt like that was similar to saying a rape victim has something to do with the rape because she wore a short skirt. I mean....there may or may not have been problems in our marriage, but that's not the same as having an affair. And our counseling keeps focusing on our marriage in general. So for the first month my husband was still having contact with this woman and was acting like I was the "gestapo" for wanting to go through his phone and was the crazy one saying he needed to cut off all ties. Plus our therapist keeps giving his complaints merit that I'm so controlling and focusing on me and my issues while ignoring this blatant violation of our marriage vows.
Fast forward 6 months and I'm still totally devastated and feel like I'm married to a complete loser. I've tried, in earnest, to get up to speed on how to "recover" by reading books, am alone paying for our marriage counseling and my own therapy (to the tune of $325 a week which is NOT easy for us to afford) and can't even get my husband to find the time (his words, not mine) to read one book that I think articulates really well what I am feeling.
We have two little kids, which is definitely the only reason I'm even bothering. But I outearn my husband by 300% and am the sole owner of our house. He has very expensive taste and loves to spend money, but makes very little of his own and constantly berates me that I save "too much" and don't know how to live in the present. At this point I don't even love him any more and feel like he's just a huge drain on me emotionally and financially. He's a good dad, but I can definitely do all this stuff without him and often wish he weren't around since he's usually just complaining about his job not being fulfilling enough or how he doesn't have this or that.
I guess I'm venting more than asking for help. I feel like I already know that divorce seems like a true improvement over the life I'm leading currently. I just feel so angry ALL THE TIME. I feel like I'm being used, and yet I should likely be angry with myself for letting this charade continue. Don't I deserve better than this? IS this normal for me to feel this way? Am I throwing in the towel too fast because I'm still so hurt? Am I seeing the wrong marriage therapist? And yet I've already invested so much time and $$$, I'm loaathe to start over with somebody else? Did I mention I'm also trying to hold down a demanding job and I don't actually have time to see all these therapists??? Can you hear the resentment? I feel like I'm married to a selfish asshole and I just want out to try to cut my losses.
Fast forward 6 months and I'm still totally devastated and feel like I'm married to a complete loser. I've tried, in earnest, to get up to speed on how to "recover" by reading books, am alone paying for our marriage counseling and my own therapy (to the tune of $325 a week which is NOT easy for us to afford) and can't even get my husband to find the time (his words, not mine) to read one book that I think articulates really well what I am feeling.
We have two little kids, which is definitely the only reason I'm even bothering. But I outearn my husband by 300% and am the sole owner of our house. He has very expensive taste and loves to spend money, but makes very little of his own and constantly berates me that I save "too much" and don't know how to live in the present. At this point I don't even love him any more and feel like he's just a huge drain on me emotionally and financially. He's a good dad, but I can definitely do all this stuff without him and often wish he weren't around since he's usually just complaining about his job not being fulfilling enough or how he doesn't have this or that.
I guess I'm venting more than asking for help. I feel like I already know that divorce seems like a true improvement over the life I'm leading currently. I just feel so angry ALL THE TIME. I feel like I'm being used, and yet I should likely be angry with myself for letting this charade continue. Don't I deserve better than this? IS this normal for me to feel this way? Am I throwing in the towel too fast because I'm still so hurt? Am I seeing the wrong marriage therapist? And yet I've already invested so much time and $$$, I'm loaathe to start over with somebody else? Did I mention I'm also trying to hold down a demanding job and I don't actually have time to see all these therapists??? Can you hear the resentment? I feel like I'm married to a selfish asshole and I just want out to try to cut my losses.