Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 16:24     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
Anonymous wrote:I think the thing that makes the difference at TJ is that the kids there are all serious about school, so the kids all "get" each other. No one is making fun of the smart kid in the class because they're all smart!

A previous poster is probably right that these kids would make up the top 5% at a regular high school, so the college acceptance results are essentially the same. The difference for these kids is spending four years surrounded by other kids they feel comfortable with. The difference is spending four years being able to join the football team, the basketball team, the cheerleaders. The difference is four years spent in a respectful, supportive environment.


Eeek. That's borderline offensive on multiple levels. First, you're assuming that the smart kids aren't otherwise able to join the athletic teams/squads (read: unathletic nerds - way to stereotype). Second, you're saying that we need to create opportunities for kids who can't make athletic squads in "regular" schools to participate in football, basketball, cheerleading . . . why is that? So they are more attractive college applicants? Not a good use of tax dollars, in my opinion.

I always thought the difference about TJ was the advanced STEM instruction the students receive - and I think that's fantastic. But if the whole point is to allow smart kids to be "surrounded by other kids they feel comfortable with" and ensure they don't get teased for being smart, shut it down. Tomorrow. It's a ridiculous waste of money.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 15:24     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
I think the thing that makes the difference at TJ is that the kids there are all serious about school, so the kids all "get" each other. No one is making fun of the smart kid in the class because they're all smart!

A previous poster is probably right that these kids would make up the top 5% at a regular high school, so the college acceptance results are essentially the same. The difference for these kids is spending four years surrounded by other kids they feel comfortable with. The difference is spending four years being able to join the football team, the basketball team, the cheerleaders. The difference is four years spent in a respectful, supportive environment.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 14:47     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I will play devils advocate: did TJ make a difference for the kids that went there? We know the average kid at TJ will perform better than the average at any other school, but if those kids stayed at the base school would they just make up the upper 5% of the school, and get into the same colleges? I really do not know the answer, but suspect the answer is that, in the end, it does not matter.

Any more than, for a career in STEM, the college does not matter (the grad school does matter).

It would be interesting to track kids that were admitted, but chose not to go to TJ, and see how they compare to the TJ cohorts at college admission.

For my DD, who is in 4th grader AAP, I think our base school (Madison) is probably fine.



You're not thinking about it correctly. Students from TJ aren't competing only against other TJ students to get into colleges. They are competing against the HS population at large. Thus, if TJ does a good job preparing students for college, even the lowest-ranking TJ student would be, in theory, better prepared than a top performing student at another school. The baseline is so much higher. So, your thinking is a bit flawed.

That said, TJ isn't for everyone, even students who are qualified to attend.


I think you missed my point....I am not trying to question the goodness of TJ vs anywhere else, rather, if the kids at TJ were distributed among their base schools, they would make up the top of the class, and would probably get into the same colleges. I am guessing that is true, but have no data to support it.

The primary advantage of TJ is probably the same advantage of AAP vs Gen ED: a better set of cohorts.

However, for my DD (if she can get in or chooses to try), it will significantly increase her commute...She would walk to Madison vs. a long ride to TJ.


WHAT DO WE WANT?

DORMS AT TJ!

Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 14:45     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I will play devils advocate: did TJ make a difference for the kids that went there? We know the average kid at TJ will perform better than the average at any other school, but if those kids stayed at the base school would they just make up the upper 5% of the school, and get into the same colleges? I really do not know the answer, but suspect the answer is that, in the end, it does not matter.

Any more than, for a career in STEM, the college does not matter (the grad school does matter).

It would be interesting to track kids that were admitted, but chose not to go to TJ, and see how they compare to the TJ cohorts at college admission.

For my DD, who is in 4th grader AAP, I think our base school (Madison) is probably fine.



You're not thinking about it correctly. Students from TJ aren't competing only against other TJ students to get into colleges. They are competing against the HS population at large. Thus, if TJ does a good job preparing students for college, even the lowest-ranking TJ student would be, in theory, better prepared than a top performing student at another school. The baseline is so much higher. So, your thinking is a bit flawed.

That said, TJ isn't for everyone, even students who are qualified to attend.


I think you missed my point....I am not trying to question the goodness of TJ vs anywhere else, rather, if the kids at TJ were distributed among their base schools, they would make up the top of the class, and would probably get into the same colleges. I am guessing that is true, but have no data to support it.

The primary advantage of TJ is probably the same advantage of AAP vs Gen ED: a better set of cohorts.

However, for my DD (if she can get in or chooses to try), it will significantly increase her commute...She would walk to Madison vs. a long ride to TJ.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 14:36     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
Anonymous wrote:In a word, no.

TJ doesn't matter

Ivies don't matter either.

I know people who went to Harvard, Cornell, and Duke who are struggling right now. And I know people who went to GMU, VA Tech, and VCU who are exceedingly successful. It doesn't matter where you go as much as it matters what you do with your education. And I would also venture to say that 95% of success is personality, attitude, and outlook. Those also have very litle to do with where you went to school.


I would argue HB Woodlawn does a better job preparing students for the way college curriculums work than does TJ. TJ may be technically superior, but Woodlawn teaches independence and educational enterprise.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 14:35     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
Anonymous wrote:I will play devils advocate: did TJ make a difference for the kids that went there? We know the average kid at TJ will perform better than the average at any other school, but if those kids stayed at the base school would they just make up the upper 5% of the school, and get into the same colleges? I really do not know the answer, but suspect the answer is that, in the end, it does not matter.

Any more than, for a career in STEM, the college does not matter (the grad school does matter).

It would be interesting to track kids that were admitted, but chose not to go to TJ, and see how they compare to the TJ cohorts at college admission.

For my DD, who is in 4th grader AAP, I think our base school (Madison) is probably fine.



You're not thinking about it correctly. Students from TJ aren't competing only against other TJ students to get into colleges. They are competing against the HS population at large. Thus, if TJ does a good job preparing students for college, even the lowest-ranking TJ student would be, in theory, better prepared than a top performing student at another school. The baseline is so much higher. So, your thinking is a bit flawed.

That said, TJ isn't for everyone, even students who are qualified to attend.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 13:57     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
Anonymous wrote:In a word, no.

TJ doesn't matter

Ivies don't matter either.

I know people who went to Harvard, Cornell, and Duke who are struggling right now. And I know people who went to GMU, VA Tech, and VCU who are exceedingly successful. It doesn't matter where you go as much as it matters what you do with your education. And I would also venture to say that 95% of success is personality, attitude, and outlook. Those also have very litle to do with where you went to school.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 13:57     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
Anonymous wrote:I will play devils advocate: did TJ make a difference for the kids that went there? We know the average kid at TJ will perform better than the average at any other school, but if those kids stayed at the base school would they just make up the upper 5% of the school, and get into the same colleges? I really do not know the answer, but suspect the answer is that, in the end, it does not matter.

Any more than, for a career in STEM, the college does not matter (the grad school does matter).

It would be interesting to track kids that were admitted, but chose not to go to TJ, and see how they compare to the TJ cohorts at college admission.

For my DD, who is in 4th grader AAP, I think our base school (Madison) is probably fine.



That may be right (I think it probably is), but it's not really the question. The fact is, it does exist, it does have cachet, admissions officers do know it, and it likely will provide an advantage in college admissions (but only for that - no one cares where you went to high school after you get into college).
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 13:43     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
In a word, no.

TJ doesn't matter

Ivies don't matter either.

I know people who went to Harvard, Cornell, and Duke who are struggling right now. And I know people who went to GMU, VA Tech, and VCU who are exceedingly successful. It doesn't matter where you go as much as it matters what you do with your education. And I would also venture to say that 95% of success is personality, attitude, and outlook. Those also have very litle to do with where you went to school.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 13:28     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
It has cachet, and that is an advantage in an abstract sense, but you know your child, and there's no single school that's right for everyone. The way you're thinking about your daughter (self-motivation and such) and high school is the way you'll be thinking about your daughter and college. Will she want a high-pressure environment? Someplace laid-back and artsy?

I am reminded of people I knew who had majors they hated because they thought that would lead to good job prospects. It did -- but in fields they hated.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 13:14     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
I will play devils advocate: did TJ make a difference for the kids that went there? We know the average kid at TJ will perform better than the average at any other school, but if those kids stayed at the base school would they just make up the upper 5% of the school, and get into the same colleges? I really do not know the answer, but suspect the answer is that, in the end, it does not matter.

Any more than, for a career in STEM, the college does not matter (the grad school does matter).

It would be interesting to track kids that were admitted, but chose not to go to TJ, and see how they compare to the TJ cohorts at college admission.

For my DD, who is in 4th grader AAP, I think our base school (Madison) is probably fine.

Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 12:23     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
I have a cousin who went to TJ... and I will say this. At one of his Ivy Interviews they asked for his schools address, and he said that he didn't know it. The admissions person said it wasok, what was the name? And when he told her TJHSST, she laughed and said, I know that address by heart!

So, other students around the country might not know of it, but admissions people surely do.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 12:15     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
My kids aren't even old enough for kindergarten yet. But we are moving soon, and were considering different high school districts within Fairfax county. My husband and I are friends with three different people who are either deans or assistant deans of admission at different colleges (one in VA, two outside VA one of which is a top 10 liberal arts college). We asked the three of them which high school district they had a better impression of. All three of them seperately replied unprompted that we should try to get them into TJ, then weighed in on the merits of the high schools we had actually asked about.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 12:12     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
Anonymous wrote:My husband and I were talking about Thomas Jefferson and whether we thought it was something that we thought our daughter might be interested in applying to when she was old enough (she is in 4th grade AAP now). Right now, I'd say that it isn't something that we'd push her to try for because she isn't really the self motivated type that you always hear about doing well there. She gets excellent grades at school, but as of now (obviously a lot can change with her in the coming years) we think she'd do just as well in her regular HS (Hayfield).

During our discussion, my husband made the comment that outside of Virginia, TJ probably doesn't matter much anyway. I grew up in Northern VA, and TJ started the year before I started HS. I grew up hearing a TON about it. My husband grew up in another state so he knew nothing about it. That got me thinking about a few things. Do you think that Colleges outside of Virginia are really all that more impressed with a child from there as opposed to one who took AP or IB classes in a regular school?

Is it better to be the last ranked person at TJ as opposed to being in the top 10 or 20% of a regular school? After all, smart as these kiddies are, someone has to be last.


Yes, it's routinely ranked as the best high school in the country, so I think it has a national profile rather than a Virginia or regional one.

Of course, it's also a commodity and viewed as such by the Type-As in our area. Science Focus in Arlington is filled with kids whose parents believe that's the ticket for getting into TJ.

I think the bigger question is whether it teaches what your kid wants to learn. A science and tech track is a great career, but if your kid is an arts and letters person, pushing her into something like that probably won't lead to a fulfilling life.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2011 11:59     Subject: Does Thomas Jefferson really matter?
My husband and I were talking about Thomas Jefferson and whether we thought it was something that we thought our daughter might be interested in applying to when she was old enough (she is in 4th grade AAP now). Right now, I'd say that it isn't something that we'd push her to try for because she isn't really the self motivated type that you always hear about doing well there. She gets excellent grades at school, but as of now (obviously a lot can change with her in the coming years) we think she'd do just as well in her regular HS (Hayfield).

During our discussion, my husband made the comment that outside of Virginia, TJ probably doesn't matter much anyway. I grew up in Northern VA, and TJ started the year before I started HS. I grew up hearing a TON about it. My husband grew up in another state so he knew nothing about it. That got me thinking about a few things. Do you think that Colleges outside of Virginia are really all that more impressed with a child from there as opposed to one who took AP or IB classes in a regular school?

Is it better to be the last ranked person at TJ as opposed to being in the top 10 or 20% of a regular school? After all, smart as these kiddies are, someone has to be last.