OP here, thanks for all the links. They were most insightful. Just a few days after our parent/teacher/counselor meeting, I got an email this afternoon regarding an incident today at school. Suffice it to say, ds was not thinking, or at least not thinking before acting on an impulse. When his teacher called him on it, as usual, he sort of acted as if he could not remember what happened, and would not give details or his side. So, can someone tell me, does your child with ADHD do this? Specifically, do something inappropriate, then either say they did not know what happened, or act as if he is not guilty? (when there are several adult witnesses). I SWEAR I have taught my children respect.

He actually broke my heart tonight. He said, "I wish I could just relive my life, because I make so many mistakes and make you mad at me". He also has been saying quite a lot lately "I feel stupid when you are upset with the way I act". I have NEVER used that word, and I am sure his teacher has not either.. things just seem to be spiraling out of control. And, in fact, his teacher said he is doing well with his school work. But, I will admit, this school year, has really been on a negative roll.

I am not a yeller, but I was very firm with him this afternoon, and he had to miss out on a fun activity with his siblings and dad, and instead of going, stayed home with me...and no screen time. Dh had time to calm down before seeing him, unlike me, and worked with ds to figure out how he could apologize appropriately tomorrow....

OP you are describing our 4th grade AAP son as well! I shall be following these posts with interest and looking into the posted links.

Our DS seems borderline and in fact his preschool teacher/director told us unsolicited to never let future teachers tell us he's ADD because he's not - at least that's what she thought - from her 20+ years of teaching. I'm wondering, however, if maybe he is. My family has plenty of undiagnosed ADD artists, writers etc. The ones that tried medication felt more focused but hated the side effects.

It's such a fine line - this ADD. DS is a very out of the box thinker, is seen as a leader, and generally is a charmer of his peers and adults alike. I sense his current teacher, who runs a tight ship, is going to have the talk with us at the upcoming conference. We have a few emails from her with classic ADD language. In past years, teachers have given him a grade at the end of the day based on his behavior. He can usually pull it together when a reward is offered by us, but eventually slips backward. It's a sticky situation all around. Maybe that's the way some borderline 4th grade boys behave? How do we figure all this out? Ugh!

I look forward to hearing what you learn.

I'm a little late to this thread but ... I really love the 1st link (posted below) that I previously posted on this board somewhere. I sent it to everyone who comes in contact with my son at school. We have been so lucky that my son's teachers have been open to understanding ADHD. I truly believe that there are so many misconceptions by teachers that I try to educate them whenever I can just so they can at least have some understanding of how ADHD presents and what it is like for the child in the classroom since it is basically an "invisible disability" that to outsiders presents itself as the kid being poorly parented, lazy and/or defiant. My son is doing the best he has ever done in school so far (3rd grade) mainly because he has a solid IEP for accomodations, his teacher is open to frequent contact and is very positive about anything she implements with him, and we started medication which has really helped to quiet the noise in his head and cut down on the impulsivity. His whole outlook is so much better and it's really nice to see him happy with himself and happy to be in school and learning. Here are the links that may be helpful!

What ADHD Students Wish Their Teachers Knew
http://www.caddac.ca/cms/page.php?49

This is nice and concise as well:
http://www.weinfeldeducationgroup.com/1/post/2011/10/understanding-adhd-with-russell-barkley-part-i.html

http://nichcy.org/disability/specific/adhd?

Hoagies Gifted page on the 2e student
http://hoagiesgifted.org/twice_exceptional.htm

Thanks pp, will look into it. (WISC coverage on ins). We have BCBS PPO (private)

PP, my understanding (which could be wrong!) was that a neuropsych evaluation would include a WISC-IV test as well as other things.

15:45, I will request the pull out, though she did mention that she will talk to ds to let him know what they are going to try, so I think she meant pull out.

I would have to dig out the CogAt and Naglieri. I can say, the one score I remember was that he got a 148 on the Nonverbal section, which I think was a perfect score. The other scores, I think ranged from 120-up. There were no areas where he scored less than 120.

I am curious if the WISC would give more insight. But right now, that is not a financial possibility. I assume insurance would not cover that.

Thanks to the OP who mentioned the insurance thing, we do have coverage for the eval, we learned this after going through it with our 5 year old. I think we paid about $20 total..

OP, I learned after consulting with my child's pediatrician that ADHD is considered a medical condition and that our insurance typically would pay for a complete neuropsychological evaluation (which is expensive) if warrented, which in our case they determined it was.

The schools won't do this neuropsych testing unless they have to, because it is expensive. But you can have it done on your own. It costs around $3000 and some insurance companies do cover it, some do not.

OP, ask the counselor to have a few sessions with your DS, if the counselor hasn't already. They have documentation that this seems to be a behavior issue more than an "educational" one (that is, his comprehension seems to be fine). The counselor should be open to having pull outs for kids that need them.

Also, how were his scores for testing into the AAP program? My DD is strongly visual-spatial and sometimes tunes out when information is presented in a different fashion (audio-sequential). I've found that she pays better attention when she's instructed in her "preferred" manner. What we're working on now is harnessing her strengths to get her to visualize and focus on what the teacher is saying, as opposed to on her table-mate's outfit, or the bird outside the window...

For us, just acknowledging to DD that we understand and respect that she learns a certain way has made a big difference in getting her on board for changing her behavior. Maybe in your case, having folks acknowledge the frustration your son must be going through in [insert area of challenge] will help him to feel understood and open to changing the behavior. I know that's nowhere near the entire story, but it might help.

That is a great suggestion, to ask specifically for the interventions in an email. A few that I recall are 1) the teacher uses a dry erase to quietly put a mark on his desk to give him a visual warning when he interrupts 2) to keep hands busy, putting a piece of velcro inside his desk for him to use when he feels fidgety...goodness, that is all I recall right now. One thing that was troubling, and that I have noticed is that when he is called out on innapropriate behavior (one example was a group of peers and he were in another classroom, and the other teacher mentioned that a group were being disruptive during a reading activity, all the other kids apologized), he is starting to seem a bit willful saying things like "I am apologizing for something I didn't do" in a rude tone...which of course, we find unacceptable. Or, they were playing a game, and he kept interrupting. The teacher warned him numerous times, and in the end, when he did not stop, she had him do another activity (written math) in the place of the fun activity, to allow the other children to keep playing....so, in the end, he still learned the skills being taught in the game, but had to do it in a less fun way.

I feel we really have sought to teach our children to respect others...and lately....sigh.....

What kind of techniques - did they share what they propose trying? Did they offer any tips to try at home? Did they offer sessions with the counselor to see if there might be a anxiety or similar component?

What they are doing here is following a "response to intervention" model - they want to see if his behavior improves in response to intervention, rather than undertaking an expensive evaluation at this stage. I would consider following up with a nice email thanking the teacher and counselor for their time and putting in writing what you understand are the interventions they are agreeing to undertake (or if you don't know, ask them to reply to your email with the interventions they will undertake).

Document everything - it will be helpful for your meeting with the developmental ped. and for making your case to the school for an evaluation, and IEP if warranted.

I really appreciate this, OP again. Meeting was this am. Teacher and counselor and myself (dh just started a new job, and could not come). Anyway, they had some good suggestions regarding some tactics that they will implement, but ultimately, they said "since he is above grade level (academically) and in AAP, the school will not order further testing". Incidentally, I would say that on all their "social/behavioral measures" he is below grade level though on a report card, that has equated to grades of "S" for virtually all areas except academics, where he always gets "O" and "G". They suggested that I could come back after we had our dev. pediatrician appointment, and request going to local screening. Seems I do need to look at the Law on this. But, they were very receptive, for the most part to trying some techniques in the meantime.

15:40 here. You might take a look at the Wrights Law site. They teach law at William & Mary and specialize in special ed law http://www.wrightslaw.com/. I find the site somewhat difficult to navigate but I can always find what I'm looking for eventually (especially if I don't get distracted by something and get off my search). They've addressed the 'the school refuses to provide my child with services/accomodations because he's working at/above grade level' many times http://www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=694 and http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/elig.add.grades.htm and http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/elig.sld.osep.felton.htm are a few of the places. I highly encourage you to read what the law says (as does Wrights Law). It may sound intimidating but it's really not. You really shoudl have a good grounding. I live in FCPS and two of my kids have IEPs. We were going through the IEP process at the same time for both of them (they're 3 years apart) but the younger one was coming in through Infant Toddler and the older one was already in school. I was amazed at the differing level of skill/expertise amount the FCPS staff at the very same school. It really helped to have a basis in the law so I could follow and contribute to the discussion. If you have additional questions, please post back. A lot of readers on this forum have some really good knowledge and experience about this sort of thing. Good luck.

PP. OP here. Thanks a bunch, this is exactly what I needed to hear. Indeed, with high grades, I wondered how I could possibly convince them to accommodate him at all, but I quote from his interim report card "x is a very bright young man, but I am afraid that is is not using his full potential in class. He tends to read, talk or interrupt instead of focusing on the lesson at hand". Mind you, the interim for all subjects were good.

During your meeting with the staff, I would suggest you request they evaluate him as well. I just posted on the thread 'when to seek an evaluation'. If your DS does have a condition that is impacting his performance at school, he will need accomodations or services of some kind. His grades are irrelevant - so don't think that just because he's at or above grade level he doesn't need anything or they dont' have to do anything. The reason you want to go through the formal process is that, once your DS qualifies, what he needs will be written into an IEP/504 which the school is required to follow. The IEP is stronger legally but the 504 is enforceable and will help save you from the random teacher/sub that thinks your DS is just being willful. Here's a link to the MCPS section on it http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/specialed/parents/ Good luck to you. It sounds like you're doing a good job!

Hi all-

After many years of assuming that my child's impulsivity/restlessness/constant interruption was due to social immaturity that he would grow out of, we have finally (4th grade) decided to seek the advice of a developmental pediatrician. In the meantime, I have a meeting with his teacher and guidance counselor tomorrow to chat about how to help him (and the teacher, who I get the impression he is driving CRAZY, I do not blame her I will mention) in the meantime.

Any thoughts on what I should bring up? He is a very bright student (in school based Level IV AAP) but is really struggling with organization, impulsivity and the inability to be still....highlighted more now that he is in 4th grade and is expected to take care of himself, and sit for longer periods.

TIA. Our parent meeting with the dev. ped is 11/19 and with ds is in December.

I am assuming that the dev. will bring up medication, which we are open to. Any advice on other therapies you have found useful would also be appreciated.