No harm in asking the teacher during the November conference, "I'd like to know, how do the instructions for tests like the CogAT work - are the children instructed to make their best guess on each question, or leave blank the ones they don't know?" Then see what the teacher says. I'd do this, if for no other reason than to confirm that my child did indeed understand the instructions given to the class.

OP here: Time will tell.....

Does anyone know when the CogAt results are coming out this year? I think it has been early Jan. in the past. But, the letter describing the testing said that it would be "a few weeks" for the results. Anyone heard when they are expected?

Anonymous wrote:OP here (and I did not write the prior post suggesting that someone else's child got it wrong -- that was another poster). I'm very sure that my child is stating the instructions accurately. He is a very compliant child (at school) and when I asked how the test went that day (so just hours after that section was given), he said "I only answered 2-3 questions." Then I asked why and he said, "the teacher told us to leave it blank if we don't know the answer." And I said, "well, you could have just picked the best one." And he said, "NO, the teacher told us to leave it blank."

I might ask about it during conferences, but I'm very confident that my child is telling about it accurately. And I do not doubt that another child in another class had different instructions. That's the irritating thing -- that a "standardized" test isn't really "standardized."

But here's the point you are missing, nothing is ever perfect. No two people are going to deliver any instructions in the exact same way. For example, surveys are very easily swayed in simply how the question is asked. There's a whole science dedicated to this and people who write surveys just to get a specific answer. It is a game.

I go back to my original point: if your child is truly gifted, they are going to get in the program regardless of how they do on this one test.

OP here (and I did not write the prior post suggesting that someone else's child got it wrong -- that was another poster). I'm very sure that my child is stating the instructions accurately. He is a very compliant child (at school) and when I asked how the test went that day (so just hours after that section was given), he said "I only answered 2-3 questions." Then I asked why and he said, "the teacher told us to leave it blank if we don't know the answer." And I said, "well, you could have just picked the best one." And he said, "NO, the teacher told us to leave it blank."

I might ask about it during conferences, but I'm very confident that my child is telling about it accurately. And I do not doubt that another child in another class had different instructions. That's the irritating thing -- that a "standardized" test isn't really "standardized."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I asked her if they told her to do that when she took her CoGat. No such instruction was given, and I would hope that if it was given, my dd would ignore that and answer the question anyway.

No offense, but these are young children and I would not solely take her word on what was said or not said before the test. Children are notoriously unreliable when recounting things they've been told or not told in class (or other places for that matter). She could easily have forgotten, been distracted and not heard, etc.

AND on the flip side, those might not have been the instructions that OP's child was given either. It seems a weird thing to tell kids prior to taking a test, especially kids that young. Perhaps OPs child misunderstood or isn't explaining himself correctly.

Being around kids that age, I can easily see a class of 2nd graders going through a series of implausible "what if" questions prior to the test, and the teacher finally saying those words in an attempt to get them back on task.

OP, if you are reallly that concerned, why don't you ask the teacher exactly what was said?

Anonymous wrote:I asked her if they told her to do that when she took her CoGat. No such instruction was given, and I would hope that if it was given, my dd would ignore that and answer the question anyway.

No offense, but these are young children and I would not solely take her word on what was said or not said before the test. Children are notoriously unreliable when recounting things they've been told or not told in class (or other places for that matter). She could easily have forgotten, been distracted and not heard, etc.

Part of the reason I'm not freaking out about it is that I didn't expect the quantitative section to be my child's best area. I expect the verbal section to show my child's real strength (whether that is high enough for AAP remains to be seen). I would like to have confidence that the CogAT is an accurate representation of my child's AAP readiness, but variations in how kids are told to take the test undermine my confidence in the accuracy of the test.

In the end, my child will either make the pool on the verbal or non-verbal sections or my child won't be in the pool. I wouldn't exactly call it an "injustice," just unfortunate.

My dd was always told that if she didn't know the answer to a question, to take her best guess. She would not, in normal practice, leave a question blank.

I asked her if they told her to do that when she took her CoGat. No such instruction was given, and I would hope that if it was given, my dd would ignore that and answer the question anyway.

Let us know how your child did!

I'm not going to take the bait and make this a big argument about who is qualified and who isn't. Some children given the instruction to "leave it blank if you don't know the answer" will look at the problem, say to themselves "we haven't done this in class before" and tell themselves that they don't know how to do it, so they move on. A better way to approach it would have been to make your best guess (or estimate) and pick an answer. Kids' often don't think they know something when they actually know quite a bit.

As you may have noticed, I'm not trying to make a big deal of this with the teacher or administration or even on this forum. I think it is a shame that some classes of kids are being tested on their confidence level in addition to reasoning ability. But, we'll be fine. It's not the end of my world or my child's future. It's just one section of one test.

Anonymous wrote:yeah. I just looked up info. on the CogAt. Looks like the quantitative part has three sections with each having 15-20 questions. If my child only answered 2-3 on one subpart, it's clear he is not going to have a high score on the quantitative portion. I really wish they had told the kids to take their best guess.

But isn't it better for the child to be honest and to show what they know vs. guessing? What if your child guessed at all of the answers, luckily got them right, was then considered for the gifted program, but couldn't hack it?

I'm sorry, I think there's way too much thought and concern given over these tests. It should be organic and happen. If the child has a super high IQ and are truly gifted, then they are going to get into the program.

yeah. I just looked up info. on the CogAt. Looks like the quantitative part has three sections with each having 15-20 questions. If my child only answered 2-3 on one subpart, it's clear he is not going to have a high score on the quantitative portion. I really wish they had told the kids to take their best guess.

I asked my DD and she said the teacher asked them to try their best to guess even though they didn't know the answers. I think this should be the way, it's weird to instruct the kids not to answer those they don't know.

I asked my DD and she said they were not given any instructions like that

Anonymous wrote:Now, don't get all uptight on me. I'm just curious if your child was told not to answer questions if they don't know the answer.

This was the instruction my child was given and then she said she only answered 2-3 questions in one part (or sub-part). Immediately, I thought -- well, he won't be scoring high on that portion of the test. But, it also kind of seemed strange that the teacher wouldn't encourage the children to pick the best answer, even if they aren't sure it's right. My child would have taken the instruction to leave it blank as: "unless you are sure you know the right answer, leave it blank."

Just wondering if all schools given the same instruction.

Also, this might explain some children scoring lower on the CogAt than the WISC as kids with less confidence in their answers might not answer very many questions.

My understanding is that you are supposed to take your best guesses for each problem.
Then I heard the CogAt test format has changed this year, so... interesting...

Now, don't get all uptight on me. I'm just curious if your child was told not to answer questions if they don't know the answer.

This was the instruction my child was given and then she said she only answered 2-3 questions in one part (or sub-part). Immediately, I thought -- well, he won't be scoring high on that portion of the test. But, it also kind of seemed strange that the teacher wouldn't encourage the children to pick the best answer, even if they aren't sure it's right. My child would have taken the instruction to leave it blank as: "unless you are sure you know the right answer, leave it blank."

Just wondering if all schools given the same instruction.

Also, this might explain some children scoring lower on the CogAt than the WISC as kids with less confidence in their answers might not answer very many questions.