Anonymous
10/21/2011 14:57
Subject: Did you go to Julliard?
OP,
If that's what they're telling you, then that's what it is. Anyone who went to Juilliard would have experienced a different trajectory 15 - 25 years ago ... Why do you want to wait until high school? How much of this is coming from your daughter and how much from you? I think middle school is where you see a lot of burnout. Read Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother!
If that's what they're telling you, then that's what it is. Anyone who went to Juilliard would have experienced a different trajectory 15 - 25 years ago ... Why do you want to wait until high school? How much of this is coming from your daughter and how much from you? I think middle school is where you see a lot of burnout. Read Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother!
Anonymous
10/21/2011 14:30
Subject: Did you go to Julliard?
21:25 -- I have another follow-up Q -- DC is in Middle School -- we are told that NOW is the time to decide about Julliard/Peabody/Curtis/Berklee. Is that timing really true? Can't we wait until high school?
Anonymous
10/21/2011 14:23
Subject: Re:Did you go to Julliard?
Anonymous wrote:OP - I wanted to share with you the compilation of articles and books from Hoagies Gifted Education page on perfectionism and gifted children. You may find some helpful information.
http://hoagiesgifted.org/perfectionism.htm
Thank you -- the list of articles looks interesting and I am sure will be helpful. Oddly, the book on the list was given to us by our guidance counselor. I guess the perfectionism is noticeable in school as well.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 14:21
Subject: Re:Did you go to Julliard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My DH was accepted, but went the practical route and got an IT degree. His parents were supportive to an extent, but mostly involved in their own issues. DH pursued music late (13) but excelled and was lucky to get free lessons from talented ppl since he didn't have much money. Our child began singing before talking to our surprise! I'm sure he'll pursue music, but we know well that musicians are artists and it's a tough road for most.
Ours sang first too!!!
Can I ask whether your DH regrets not having gone to Julliard? How much music does he do now?
No regrets from DH. Although, he wanted to double major in music at the technical & arts college he went to, but it was against the rules at the time, so he may wish it could have been different. He played on the side for many years, but stopped altogether 10 years ago when he moved here and didn't have space for equipment. He hears about other friends from his past and most are struggling in music, so I think that also solidifies his belief that he took the most prosperous path. I should say his mother also went to Juiliard, but dropped out to dance for the Met, but she also went to school for nursing. She was done as a professional in a few years, but nursing still keeps her employed.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 14:18
Subject: Re:Did you go to Julliard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My DH was accepted, but went the practical route and got an IT degree. His parents were supportive to an extent, but mostly involved in their own issues. DH pursued music late (13) but excelled and was lucky to get free lessons from talented ppl since he didn't have much money. Our child began singing before talking to our surprise! I'm sure he'll pursue music, but we know well that musicians are artists and it's a tough road for most.
Ours sang first too!!!
Can I ask whether your DH regrets not having gone to Julliard? How much music does he do now?
No regrets from DH. Although, he wanted to double major in music at the technical & arts college he went to, but it was against the rules at the time, so he may wish it could have been different. He played on the side for many years, but stopped altogether 10 years ago when he moved here and didn't have space for equipment. He hears about other friends from his past and most are struggling in music, so I think that also solidifies his belief that he took the most prosperous path. I should say his mother also went to Juiliard, but dropped out to dance for the Met, but she also went to school for nursing. She was done as a professional in a few years, but nursing still keeps her employed.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 14:09
Subject: Re:Did you go to Julliard?
OP - I wanted to share with you the compilation of articles and books from Hoagies Gifted Education page on perfectionism and gifted children. You may find some helpful information.
http://hoagiesgifted.org/perfectionism.htm
http://hoagiesgifted.org/perfectionism.htm
Anonymous
10/21/2011 13:57
Subject: Re:Did you go to Julliard?
Anonymous wrote:My DH was accepted, but went the practical route and got an IT degree. His parents were supportive to an extent, but mostly involved in their own issues. DH pursued music late (13) but excelled and was lucky to get free lessons from talented ppl since he didn't have much money. Our child began singing before talking to our surprise! I'm sure he'll pursue music, but we know well that musicians are artists and it's a tough road for most.
Ours sang first too!!!
Can I ask whether your DH regrets not having gone to Julliard? How much music does he do now?
Anonymous
10/21/2011 13:56
Subject: Did you go to Julliard?
Anonymous wrote:How old is your child, OP? Have you read The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother?
Hmmm, no. Haven't heard of it. Is it about Julliard?
Anonymous
10/21/2011 13:55
Subject: Did you go to Julliard?
Anonymous wrote:The only thing in my estimation that keeps a working musician happy is their love and drive for the music. If that is something that the parents have pushed on the child to ensure achievements or acceptance in particular festivals or schools, they will be perhaps great musicians, but could become miserable adults. They will need to have that inner motivation - it is the only thing that will keep them going and getting enough work to live on. I make a 6 figure income off of my music but the pressures, the competition, and the constant critique is tough on some people. You have to be the type of person who has a standard and strives for it - almost just competing against yourself so that your spirit can stay in tact with the predictable rejections and cut throat behavior of your peers at times. There is a lot of talent and not enough concerts or positions to fill honestly.
Some of my top students btw are on scholarships now at Oberlin and Stanford double majoring to cover their bases. One of my good friends from high school is an actor and singer on broadway and he does great but he was smart enough to also get a degree in graphic design for when he is between shows. I think this is becoming more common and can provide a greater stability for people who are artists and want a life that includes family and settling down.
Still, if my child wanted to be a professional musician and put all his/her eggs in that basket and I didnt sense they had a real inner drive to navigate that road, I would have trouble supporting that decision knowing how hard it is out there. It takes a certain kind of person to do this...it really doesnt suit everyone no matter how talented they are. I coach 20-30 year olds on a regular basis who are tortured by somehow not being able to get this to happen for themselves even after their degrees and experience and hours of practice. They have the talent but the drive and strength of spirit isnt quite there. They falter, they sabotage things, dont follow through etc....Watching the most talented of them fall like this isnt easy for parents either I imagine. Only YOU know your child. Some things might develop with maturity but other things dont.
Thank you for taking the time to write. You have articulated our fears as parents very well. Asking DC to tone down on the music would be like asking DC to chop off own hand. And it is because it is so part of DC's essence that it makes us nervous.
Anonymous
10/21/2011 13:53
Subject: Did you go to Julliard?
Anonymous wrote:I got accepted to Juilliard but instead went to a conservatory overseas, equally competitive. I had very supportive parents, both professional musicians but not at the level I was aiming for and they knew that. They never pushed me as I was very determined on my own. They tried to help me keep things in perspective and kept the rest of my life balanced and easy when competitions and performances were busy. My mom passed away when I was in my early twenties but my Dad is still here and there was never any rift or issue between any of us.
Truly, IMO to be a professional musician, Juliiard or no Juilliard, the kid has to have a fire under them without you pushing. Then there is the normal parental help with meeting goals, organizing life goals versus social needs and wants etc.....all kids need help with that. But the practice and desire for perfection where technique and performance skills are concerned, should come from them.
FWIW - I am a professional musician, performing quite a bit and also on faculty at a university and coaching young performers - all of which make a nice living now for myself and my family ( hubbie plus three kids). Very close to what I aimed for and I know much of that came from my parents so I am grateful.
Thank you. This was very helpful. It is my DC's perfectionism which gives us the most concern. This is what I mean by pushing or not pushing DC. I feel like the perfectionism is the hardest part of being a musician. Not being a musician myself, I may be wrong, but that is what I see in our home. I feel like most of the "pushing" we do is to help overcome the idea that DC has that DC must be perfect and any less is devastating. So we end up helping to push through to get it perfect (which makes DC happy) or, alternatively, sometimes not pushing at all because we feel that the perfectionism is unwarranted or detrimental emotionally. Do you understand? Do you have any advice? Is this level of perfectionism normal? Do musicians this talented just go through this? FYI, her teacher is Julliard trained and was raised in China with that piano technique as a child.
Anonymous
10/20/2011 22:39
Subject: Did you go to Julliard?
The only thing in my estimation that keeps a working musician happy is their love and drive for the music. If that is something that the parents have pushed on the child to ensure achievements or acceptance in particular festivals or schools, they will be perhaps great musicians, but could become miserable adults. They will need to have that inner motivation - it is the only thing that will keep them going and getting enough work to live on. I make a 6 figure income off of my music but the pressures, the competition, and the constant critique is tough on some people. You have to be the type of person who has a standard and strives for it - almost just competing against yourself so that your spirit can stay in tact with the predictable rejections and cut throat behavior of your peers at times. There is a lot of talent and not enough concerts or positions to fill honestly.
Some of my top students btw are on scholarships now at Oberlin and Stanford double majoring to cover their bases. One of my good friends from high school is an actor and singer on broadway and he does great but he was smart enough to also get a degree in graphic design for when he is between shows. I think this is becoming more common and can provide a greater stability for people who are artists and want a life that includes family and settling down.
Still, if my child wanted to be a professional musician and put all his/her eggs in that basket and I didnt sense they had a real inner drive to navigate that road, I would have trouble supporting that decision knowing how hard it is out there. It takes a certain kind of person to do this...it really doesnt suit everyone no matter how talented they are. I coach 20-30 year olds on a regular basis who are tortured by somehow not being able to get this to happen for themselves even after their degrees and experience and hours of practice. They have the talent but the drive and strength of spirit isnt quite there. They falter, they sabotage things, dont follow through etc....Watching the most talented of them fall like this isnt easy for parents either I imagine. Only YOU know your child. Some things might develop with maturity but other things dont.
Some of my top students btw are on scholarships now at Oberlin and Stanford double majoring to cover their bases. One of my good friends from high school is an actor and singer on broadway and he does great but he was smart enough to also get a degree in graphic design for when he is between shows. I think this is becoming more common and can provide a greater stability for people who are artists and want a life that includes family and settling down.
Still, if my child wanted to be a professional musician and put all his/her eggs in that basket and I didnt sense they had a real inner drive to navigate that road, I would have trouble supporting that decision knowing how hard it is out there. It takes a certain kind of person to do this...it really doesnt suit everyone no matter how talented they are. I coach 20-30 year olds on a regular basis who are tortured by somehow not being able to get this to happen for themselves even after their degrees and experience and hours of practice. They have the talent but the drive and strength of spirit isnt quite there. They falter, they sabotage things, dont follow through etc....Watching the most talented of them fall like this isnt easy for parents either I imagine. Only YOU know your child. Some things might develop with maturity but other things dont.
Anonymous
10/20/2011 22:00
Subject: Re:Did you go to Julliard?
My DH was accepted, but went the practical route and got an IT degree. His parents were supportive to an extent, but mostly involved in their own issues. DH pursued music late (13) but excelled and was lucky to get free lessons from talented ppl since he didn't have much money. Our child began singing before talking to our surprise! I'm sure he'll pursue music, but we know well that musicians are artists and it's a tough road for most.
Anonymous
10/20/2011 21:39
Subject: Did you go to Julliard?
How old is your child, OP? Have you read The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother?
Anonymous
10/20/2011 21:25
Subject: Did you go to Julliard?
I got accepted to Juilliard but instead went to a conservatory overseas, equally competitive. I had very supportive parents, both professional musicians but not at the level I was aiming for and they knew that. They never pushed me as I was very determined on my own. They tried to help me keep things in perspective and kept the rest of my life balanced and easy when competitions and performances were busy. My mom passed away when I was in my early twenties but my Dad is still here and there was never any rift or issue between any of us.
Truly, IMO to be a professional musician, Juliiard or no Juilliard, the kid has to have a fire under them without you pushing. Then there is the normal parental help with meeting goals, organizing life goals versus social needs and wants etc.....all kids need help with that. But the practice and desire for perfection where technique and performance skills are concerned, should come from them.
FWIW - I am a professional musician, performing quite a bit and also on faculty at a university and coaching young performers - all of which make a nice living now for myself and my family ( hubbie plus three kids). Very close to what I aimed for and I know much of that came from my parents so I am grateful.
Truly, IMO to be a professional musician, Juliiard or no Juilliard, the kid has to have a fire under them without you pushing. Then there is the normal parental help with meeting goals, organizing life goals versus social needs and wants etc.....all kids need help with that. But the practice and desire for perfection where technique and performance skills are concerned, should come from them.
FWIW - I am a professional musician, performing quite a bit and also on faculty at a university and coaching young performers - all of which make a nice living now for myself and my family ( hubbie plus three kids). Very close to what I aimed for and I know much of that came from my parents so I am grateful.
Anonymous
10/20/2011 20:45
Subject: Did you go to Julliard?
I'd love to hear about your childhood, how your parents supported you and whether you are still friends with them : ) and what you think now, as an adult, of everything you went through in order to get into that school. My biggest fear is that my DC will say to me as an adult "Why didn't you push me harder so I could get in" or "Mom, you pushed me too hard when all I wanted was a normal childhood." I have lost all perspective, don't know whether I am pushing too hard or not enough.