Anonymous wrote:Aren't you all a little unhappy that this is the system you have bought into for your 8 year old or whatever (if we are talking WISC, this is an elementary aged child)? What a psycho rat race.

NP. Our family is in a lower socio-eco class, my son was accepted into all the schools we applied to. I happily shared the good news with our preschool head and was told not to tell any of the other parents. By the way, he had an excellent WISC score, teacher reports, and great play dates.

Choose a PreK-12 school from the beginning (after a no-name preschool) and you don't have to deal with any of this.

Aren't you all a little unhappy that this is the system you have bought into for your 8 year old or whatever (if we are talking WISC, this is an elementary aged child)? What a psycho rat race.

See, this is why I come to DCUM still despite feeling occasionally abused. I've already learned useful things from this thread.

My DS is just like OP's DD stat-wise but is we have a few more years before applying out and putting together the portfolio. Guess who's going to be switching to more 'face time'-type volunteering jobs!

Like OP, I'm pretty sure there is back-room horse trading that goes on with your basic students. ie, not the attorney general's kids, but your basic well-behaved kid of a corporate lawyer who plays soccer adequately.

I am 100% sure our school brokers certain kids to certain schools under the rubric of "fit." Talk to some BTDT older parents if you are unsure of this point.

Anonymous wrote:

Schools have long-term relationships with each other and with families. And lots of schools will want to balance their classes with a variety of different kids from a variety of different places. So, for example, how many well-behaved white girls with corporate lawyer daddies from Beauvior does some school other than NCS want to admit in any give year. And if Beauvoir has 4 such candidates and one set of parents is a PITA and another set of parents are major donors with other kids potentially in the pipeline, I could certainly see them being more interested in family B getting the exmission result of their dreams than family A. And it can be rationalized as a sort of victimless crime (or even a blessing in disguise) if the decisionmaker is pretty confident that the daughter in family A will do just as well (or better) in a school that isn't her parents' first choice.

All examples are meant to be fictional, but I think it takes a certainly level of detail to understand what can happen, so I filled in the blanks with specifics.

From our experience, looking around our school's K-6, your example is exactly right.

Your example is a fairly clean one, though, with identical kids but a PITA family vs. a major donor family. Where this sort of engineering gets more questionable is when rejected kid A didn't come from a PITA family, or accepted kid B had much lower test scores -- both of which we've seen, again looking around our K-6. And while Beauvoir or another private K-6 or K-8 may be able to rationalize this sort of engineering as a "victimless crime" (and I have no doubt they do), it probably seems a bit high-handed to the rejected family that honestly thought their first choice school was a good fit for their kid.

Of course, it's not just Beauvoir wanting to push the rich kid with the low test scores -- it's also STA or Sidwell wanting that rich kid with the donor parents. The connivance is mutual. Beauvoir tells STA or NCS, "this family has been very generous with their time and during the annual fund drive, and besides X is a lovely kid and contributes to the class in so many ways that aren't reflected in those low test scores" and 'nuff said. But I digress!

For what it's worth, some of this angling goes away for college admissions. For college, some preferences are still there (legacy, URM and athletic). But at least some of the variables are struck off - your family as a whole isn't being judged on how much money you can donate (unless it's in the millions, in which case it can help) or whether you will run the auction at the next school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be careful..you can get more facetime but they can hurt you in the end. I would keep track of the emails that were not responded to and go to the head of the school. I would say you are concerned something has happened in this process that could hurt your daughter.

God, this is crazy. If DD has always done well and test scores match what possible reason would anyone at the school have for "hurting" DD's application in the end as you say ?

10:10 again. I don't think it's a question of "hurting" an application in the sense of bad-mouthing your kid. I think it's a question of not pushing as much as for some other kids, or not giving absolutely glowing recommendations. Your current school has several opportunities to talk to the schools your kid is applying to. Many ADs and heads go around on a tour of visiting area middle and high schools. Also they talk on the phone to the schools your kid is applying to. During these visits and phone chats, they plug/talk about the entire portfolio of kids from your ES who are applying to the MS or HS. According to our exmissions person, they also go the extra mile to explain why a kid had a C in some class, or why the kid may not have done well during the school interview ("he's shy, but when he comes out of his shell, watch out!" sort of thing). So when they do their spiel, they talk enthusiastically about some kids, and what some families are going to contribute (in money and/or volunteering) to the next school "family." And maybe their faces don't light up quite as much, or at least they give less airtime, for some other kids.

The exmissions person already has an opinion about your kid and your family, so I'm not sure asking questions would change that, unless you are a PITA. (A fine line, I know!)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be careful..you can get more facetime but they can hurt you in the end. I would keep track of the emails that were not responded to and go to the head of the school. I would say you are concerned something has happened in this process that could hurt your daughter.

God, this is crazy. If DD has always done well and test scores match what possible reason would anyone at the school have for "hurting" DD's application in the end as you say ?

Schools have long-term relationships with each other and with families. And lots of schools will want to balance their classes with a variety of different kids from a variety of different places. So, for example, how many well-behaved white girls with corporate lawyer daddies from Beauvior does some school other than NCS want to admit in any give year. And if Beauvoir has 4 such candidates and one set of parents is a PITA and another set of parents are major donors with other kids potentially in the pipeline, I could certainly see them being more interested in family B getting the exmission result of their dreams than family A. And it can be rationalized as a sort of victimless crime (or even a blessing in disguise) if the decisionmaker is pretty confident that the daughter in family A will do just as well (or better) in a school that isn't her parents' first choice.

All examples are meant to be fictional, but I think it takes a certainly level of detail to understand what can happen, so I filled in the blanks with specifics.

The Outplacement Directors definitely spend time and receive a lot of info from each student's current and previous teachers. It's very possible that they see your child as how she performs (and her personality) in the classroom instead of testing and at home.

I would hope that now that the school knows your expectations, that they will support your opinions and help your DD get in.

Anonymous wrote:DC is very well regarded at her school. She has great reports, is well behaved and did well ( top 3% of class on ERB and 99% on WISC). When DH and I met w/ outplacement we were asked what school we were interested in. I got the impression that our answer surprised the outplacement director, who listened politely, said DD would be a very strong applicant there,then said,"but I also think X would be a great school for her as well" Honestly,I don't see how someone who has never taught my child knows anything about her. We politely listened , but now as the process moves forward the outplacement person seems to have turned a deaf ear to us.We have proceeded to apply to a few schools, but in doing so some questions have come up that we fielded to the OD. This person does not respond to our emails and we feel like we are being ignored. Should I just send my child's file myself? Is this the way outplacement people give advice? It feels like the application process is just a window dressing and everything has already been decided in some kind of back room card game between AD's and exmissions people. Anyone been through this and care to share?

We felt ignored by our exmissions person, as well. Our DC was also at the very top of the class, and high SSAT and ERB scores. I think the problems for us may have been that (a) we weren't lifers - we entered after K or 1st, (b) we weren't in a position to donate major bucks, and (c) we didn't volunteer as much, or at least as obviously, as some of the other families. Yes, we volunteered some, but we both work full-time, so our volunteering was the kind that involves calling other parents or doing work at home at night, rather than getting under the AD's or head's noses during the school day.

So we got the impression we were really low on the school's radar. Maybe they thought we weren't as much a part of the school's "family." Perhaps this is partly our fault, although we did our best. But I've told people before, if I had endless time, I'd love to do a study about whether or not volunteering in a way that gets you face time with the AD and head is an advantage in exmissions.

At the end of the day, with almost no help from the AD and some truly awful advice when the exmissions person bothered to notice us ("DD will definitely get into Sidwell, you shouldn't bother applying to any backup schools because DD is too good for those!"), we applied to several schools and DD got into a top 3 (which we turned down, but that's another story). But like you, we give credit to our own research and careful thinking, rather than any advice or help from the school. It wasn't Beauvoir, FWIW.

Anonymous wrote:Be careful..you can get more facetime but they can hurt you in the end. I would keep track of the emails that were not responded to and go to the head of the school. I would say you are concerned something has happened in this process that could hurt your daughter.

God, this is crazy. If DD has always done well and test scores match what possible reason would anyone at the school have for "hurting" DD's application in the end as you say ?

Be careful..you can get more facetime but they can hurt you in the end. I would keep track of the emails that were not responded to and go to the head of the school. I would say you are concerned something has happened in this process that could hurt your daughter.

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you need another appointment. Did you already try being direct? Not rude, but just lay your concerns out there. "We got the impression you were surprised DD was applying to x. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on why y would be a better fit for her." "I'm a little frustrated at the communication process if I have followup questions. Email doesn't seem to be the best way to reach you. Is there a better way or someone else we can go to with questions like that?"

Good approach. It is definitely not professional that they are not responding to email, and a polite and indirect reminder is a good way to resolve this -- and maybe the person is a phone person and you can get your information that way.

It sounds like you need another appointment. Did you already try being direct? Not rude, but just lay your concerns out there. "We got the impression you were surprised DD was applying to x. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on why y would be a better fit for her." "I'm a little frustrated at the communication process if I have followup questions. Email doesn't seem to be the best way to reach you. Is there a better way or someone else we can go to with questions like that?"

It is always frustrating to have your emails ignored, and it also sounds like you are also just stressed bc let's face it, the application process stinks no matter what grade you are at. (It also sounds like you might be at Beauvoir, if I might guess, and I have heard that everyone gets crazed during their applying out phase bc it is such a type A place.) I am sure that your daughter will end up somewhere great--she sounds like a strong candidate so follow your own instincts. You are the parent, remember, and you ought to know her better than anyone at her school does, even the best of her teachers.

DC is very well regarded at her school. She has great reports, is well behaved and did well ( top 3% of class on ERB and 99% on WISC). When DH and I met w/ outplacement we were asked what school we were interested in. I got the impression that our answer surprised the outplacement director, who listened politely, said DD would be a very strong applicant there,then said,"but I also think X would be a great school for her as well" Honestly,I don't see how someone who has never taught my child knows anything about her. We politely listened , but now as the process moves forward the outplacement person seems to have turned a deaf ear to us.We have proceeded to apply to a few schools, but in doing so some questions have come up that we fielded to the OD. This person does not respond to our emails and we feel like we are being ignored. Should I just send my child's file myself? Is this the way outplacement people give advice? It feels like the application process is just a window dressing and everything has already been decided in some kind of back room card game between AD's and exmissions people. Anyone been through this and care to share?