Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:gifted students are not tools to be used to serve the DCPS, they are individuals who deserve an appropriate education
I agree that giftedness may be overstated, many parents are convinced their child is a phenom when the child is just smart
the urge by some parents to deny gifted/smart children a chance to excel and advance is just sour grapes, imo.. it's akin to eliminating varsity football and insisting on all children being given a spot on the bench...it ignores the fact that learning, just like physical prowess, is very different from child to child
leveling the math curriculum will result in youngsters arriving at college unprepared for elementary engineering courses...I guess then we could make college courses last 5 or 6 years as noone arrives at college with more than a basic education in any discipline...that'll be fun to pay for, won't it?
Or we can continue to import out science and tech experts from India and Japan, where I assure you education is 'tracked' from middle school onwards...
the belief that advancing some students is 'bad' will only further dumb down our school systems...and lead to the USA sinking even further behind countries
after all, if that 8th grader fails geometry, or french 4 she'll repeat it, right?


without magnets as an incentive, a lot more people will abandon dcps, trust that!

Will people leave DCPS? Yes, but many (if not most) will stay rather then pay ridicules amounts to go to a private school or play the game of Russian Roulette that finding a Charter school that is both good and open is nowadays.

Yeah, if we level the curriculum, the immediate result might be worse test scores and less college readiness, BUT then the 'smart' kids will get their friends (who might very well not be 'smart, as we are quick to characterize kids nowadays) to take that hard AP or Honors class with them. You would be surprised about the power of peer motivation. We hear it all the time about peer pressure (drugs, alcohol, cigarettes?), but if we can use the same basic formula to make sure that most will get a good education that is varied.

Also- DCPS is pretty far from Japan in terms of education. If we try to base our improvements off them, we will just end up failing. We should be focusing on what might make DCPS that little bit better in the long run instead of an impossible competition.

(And yes this is the OP again, I didn't read the quoted post until I had finished my last post)
-Anne

Wrong! And I have the historical data to prove it. It is THE reason the suburbs have grown at DC's expense ever since the '50s. When parents with the means to leave can go? They will. And it's not just the wealthy (why are privates so popular in DC?), it is the middle class. THAT is the reason there are so few middle class families in DC, and especially in DCPS.

You take away the few bright spots in public education here in DC, and families like mine which have begun to re-invest in the District are gone. No way in hell would I let my children go to a regular DCPS H.S.

Then maybe we don't want you in DCPS.

Believe it or not, most DCPS families don't have the money to move out of the city or switch to some fancy private school when they feel their little munchkin can't go to some private school wannabe. If you don't want to improve DCPS AS A WHOLE, maybe you shouldn't be involved in it at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:gifted students are not tools to be used to serve the DCPS, they are individuals who deserve an appropriate education
I agree that giftedness may be overstated, many parents are convinced their child is a phenom when the child is just smart
the urge by some parents to deny gifted/smart children a chance to excel and advance is just sour grapes, imo.. it's akin to eliminating varsity football and insisting on all children being given a spot on the bench...it ignores the fact that learning, just like physical prowess, is very different from child to child
leveling the math curriculum will result in youngsters arriving at college unprepared for elementary engineering courses...I guess then we could make college courses last 5 or 6 years as noone arrives at college with more than a basic education in any discipline...that'll be fun to pay for, won't it?
Or we can continue to import out science and tech experts from India and Japan, where I assure you education is 'tracked' from middle school onwards...
the belief that advancing some students is 'bad' will only further dumb down our school systems...and lead to the USA sinking even further behind countries
after all, if that 8th grader fails geometry, or french 4 she'll repeat it, right?


without magnets as an incentive, a lot more people will abandon dcps, trust that!

Will people leave DCPS? Yes, but many (if not most) will stay rather then pay ridicules amounts to go to a private school or play the game of Russian Roulette that finding a Charter school that is both good and open is nowadays.

Yeah, if we level the curriculum, the immediate result might be worse test scores and less college readiness, BUT then the 'smart' kids will get their friends (who might very well not be 'smart, as we are quick to characterize kids nowadays) to take that hard AP or Honors class with them. You would be surprised about the power of peer motivation. We hear it all the time about peer pressure (drugs, alcohol, cigarettes?), but if we can use the same basic formula to make sure that most will get a good education that is varied.

Also- DCPS is pretty far from Japan in terms of education. If we try to base our improvements off them, we will just end up failing. We should be focusing on what might make DCPS that little bit better in the long run instead of an impossible competition.

(And yes this is the OP again, I didn't read the quoted post until I had finished my last post)
-Anne

Wrong! And I have the historical data to prove it. It is THE reason the suburbs have grown at DC's expense ever since the '50s. When parents with the means to leave can go? They will. And it's not just the wealthy (why are privates so popular in DC?), it is the middle class. THAT is the reason there are so few middle class families in DC, and especially in DCPS.

You take away the few bright spots in public education here in DC, and families like mine which have begun to re-invest in the District are gone. No way in hell would I let my children go to a regular DCPS H.S.

Anonymous wrote:actually it's been shown time and time again that wilson does not get any more money per student than dunbar
the smaller walls and ellington get the most, because small schools cost more to run
similarly if you look at DC's expenditure per child for mcfarland vs deal, your jaw would drop

To save you the looking, here are the numbers: per-pupil expenditures, per year: Deal MS - $8,400, MacFarland MS - $15,184

Anonymous wrote:gifted students are not tools to be used to serve the DCPS, they are individuals who deserve an appropriate education
I agree that giftedness may be overstated, many parents are convinced their child is a phenom when the child is just smart
the urge by some parents to deny gifted/smart children a chance to excel and advance is just sour grapes, imo.. it's akin to eliminating varsity football and insisting on all children being given a spot on the bench...it ignores the fact that learning, just like physical prowess, is very different from child to child
leveling the math curriculum will result in youngsters arriving at college unprepared for elementary engineering courses...I guess then we could make college courses last 5 or 6 years as noone arrives at college with more than a basic education in any discipline...that'll be fun to pay for, won't it?
Or we can continue to import out science and tech experts from India and Japan, where I assure you education is 'tracked' from middle school onwards...
the belief that advancing some students is 'bad' will only further dumb down our school systems...and lead to the USA sinking even further behind countries
after all, if that 8th grader fails geometry, or french 4 she'll repeat it, right?


without magnets as an incentive, a lot more people will abandon dcps, trust that!

Will people leave DCPS? Yes, but many (if not most) will stay rather then pay ridicules amounts to go to a private school or play the game of Russian Roulette that finding a Charter school that is both good and open is nowadays.

Yeah, if we level the curriculum, the immediate result might be worse test scores and less college readiness, BUT then the 'smart' kids will get their friends (who might very well not be 'smart, as we are quick to characterize kids nowadays) to take that hard AP or Honors class with them. You would be surprised about the power of peer motivation. We hear it all the time about peer pressure (drugs, alcohol, cigarettes?), but if we can use the same basic formula to make sure that most will get a good education that is varied.

Also- DCPS is pretty far from Japan in terms of education. If we try to base our improvements off them, we will just end up failing. We should be focusing on what might make DCPS that little bit better in the long run instead of an impossible competition.

(And yes this is the OP again, I didn't read the quoted post until I had finished my last post)
-Anne

actually it's been shown time and time again that wilson does not get any more money per student than dunbar
the smaller walls and ellington get the most, because small schools cost more to run
similarly if you look at DC's expenditure per child for mcfarland vs deal, your jaw would drop

Now, I agree that funding is unfairly spread among DC students; the main discrepancy is in special education which eats up an enormous chunk of Dc's budget, not only because these children need classes of 5 or 6 students, or personal aides, but because the DC gov't is paying $$$$$$$$$$$ to transport these children out to maryland and virginia schools, instead of creating centralized magnets for children with disabilities inside DC
and trust me, because the DC gov't is paying private contractors, they are paying full freight tuition at places like Madeira, and highroads...

Also, while principals of surrounding schools decry losing some of their brightest to Thomas Jefferson or Montgomery Blair, Fairfax and Montgomery counties still manage to create decent educational opportunities regardless...


magnets don't prevent school systems from creating decent regular schools, any more than schools for children with learning disabilities create learning deserts for regular schools

OP here-

I am in favor of magnet schools, but not when our normal schools are suffering for it. The heart of any public school system is not its magnets, but rather its regular, run of the mill schools.

DCPS needs more money. Period. And yes, we need to spread the money around better, Wilson and other upper-northwest schools seem to get a bit more money then those down, say in Anacostia. But, when you get down to it, the school system is in need of money. Raising taxes is a no-go, people won't (and don't) like that idea at all, and cutting is also not all that popular.

Alot of the budgeting for DCPS is related to student count, pretty much the more students a school has, the more money. Some of the per-student budget goes towards costs that each student requires- money for textbooks, desks, etc- while the rest goes towards improving the school environment for the student body as a whole- like computer access, staff, etc. By cutting magnet schools, we consolidate the money into the schools that make up the bread and butter of our system. We also could sell the buildings that currently house those schools (I know that both School without walls and Banneker are on prime property for George Washington and Howard Universities, respectively). Yeah some might transfer out of DCPS in favor of Charters or Private schools, but in the end, I think, a majority will decide to stay and go to school in DCPS.

Not only the money, but also the students will transfer to the normal schools, and as you said, many of these are dedicated students who want to succeed. Maybe those students could bring that same dedication and drive to succeed into the neighborhood schools.

Also, to 19:09, I happen to know a few kids who go to magnet schools (Walls especially) as they were in my son's middle school and are still friends with my son.I would say more then half of them went to the magnet not because they really wanted to or were striving for it, but because their parents were pushing them to. The fact is that kids often don't get a choice in the High School decisions that are made.

19:08: Why can't they get their needs met at Anacostia or Wilson is my question. Our school system is messed up if the only way smart kids can get a decent education is by going to a couple selective high schools. Last year I went to a meeting with Kaya Henderson, and she talked alot about having a unified school system. But you know what? We don't have that.

What we have is a two-pronged school system, where the top students (as chosen by their middle school academic "career", a test, an interview, or a combination of the above) get a completely separate and better experience then those that are average or below average. A true magnet school improves on what is already in the local school system, what ours does is take those students in a completely different direction. That direction gives those students an advantage over the normal students that is large and obvious. It also teaches the kids in them that they are innately better then those in neighborhood schools in the same way Yale teaches their kids that they are innately better than those in UDC.

I mentioned the meeting with Kaya Henderson earlier, and I have something else to say about it. There was a group of students from Walls at this meeting protesting the budget cuts. While I admire their spunk and willingness to stand up for what they thought was right, I was also annoyed when they came into the discussion and took the majority of Kaya Henderson's time whining (and yes, it was essentially whining- they kept saying the same thing over and over) about the fact that one of their counselors was excessed (though, as the chancellor pointed out, they were only supposed to have 3 counselors to begin with). Do I blame them? No, they obviously really liked the Counselor, but it just goes to show that magnets often seem to get away with more then regular public schools do. It also is a good example of them feeling like they were above normal schools, despite the fact that others wanted to talk (some about the budget cuts at their own school) these representative from walls just kept butting in and bringing it back to Walls again.

Again, after we have an acceptable school system, I think we should look into recreating magnets like Walls and Banneker. As I said earlier, magnets are meant to build upon the normal schools, but when there is not much their at normal school level, they just end up dividing the school system into the Haves and the have-nots. I understand that my idea is not popular and quite honestly, not likely to ever happen, but I just wanted to see whether I was alone in this thinking.
-Anne

gifted students are not tools to be used to serve the DCPS, they are individuals who deserve an appropriate education
I agree that giftedness may be overstated, many parents are convinced their child is a phenom when the child is just smart
the urge by some parents to deny gifted/smart children a chance to excel and advance is just sour grapes, imo.. it's akin to eliminating varsity football and insisting on all children being given a spot on the bench...it ignores the fact that learning, just like physical prowess, is very different from child to child
leveling the math curriculum will result in youngsters arriving at college unprepared for elementary engineering courses...I guess then we could make college courses last 5 or 6 years as noone arrives at college with more than a basic education in any discipline...that'll be fun to pay for, won't it?
Or we can continue to import out science and tech experts from India and Japan, where I assure you education is 'tracked' from middle school onwards...
the belief that advancing some students is 'bad' will only further dumb down our school systems...and lead to the USA sinking even further behind countries
after all, if that 8th grader fails geometry, or french 4 she'll repeat it, right?


without magnets as an incentive, a lot more people will abandon dcps, trust that!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree
striving for a spot in an academy or magnet school is a good motivator for youngsters...and the simple fact is that not everyone learns at the same pace
there are special schools in dc, or dc pays for special education for many children; gifted children also deserve an appropriate education
as a parent, I would NEVER suggest magnets be eliminated, I'd suggest more magnets, in more fields of study

Gifted is overused and is only part of a larger problem. Simply put: we need lots of schools majority proficient. Advanced students and struggling students alike will benefit.

Some students wouldn't attend a majority school and I don't know how to manage that population - but I have ZERO doubt a net gain in grade level DCPS students is good for everyone.

You have a logical break here. How would the elimination of magnets create a net gain in grade level DCPS students (by which, assume you are saying that it would be a net gain in the education achieved by DCPS students as a whole)? How does the elimination of magnets help those who are not currently in magnets?

Anonymous wrote:I disagree
striving for a spot in an academy or magnet school is a good motivator for youngsters...and the simple fact is that not everyone learns at the same pace
there are special schools in dc, or dc pays for special education for many children; gifted children also deserve an appropriate education
as a parent, I would NEVER suggest magnets be eliminated, I'd suggest more magnets, in more fields of study

Gifted is overused and is only part of a larger problem. Simply put: we need lots of schools majority proficient. Advanced students and struggling students alike will benefit.

Some students wouldn't attend a majority school and I don't know how to manage that population - but I have ZERO doubt a net gain in grade level DCPS students is good for everyone.

I disagree
striving for a spot in an academy or magnet school is a good motivator for youngsters...and the simple fact is that not everyone learns at the same pace
there are special schools in dc, or dc pays for special education for many children; gifted children also deserve an appropriate education
as a parent, I would NEVER suggest magnets be eliminated, I'd suggest more magnets, in more fields of study

I have a non-smart middle schooler. He doesn't test well, doesn't get particularly good grades but is a great kid. He will be going to Wilson in 2 years and most likely not an academy.

I don't see any reason why SWW or Ellington or any magnet should be closed. My child is getting his needs met, why shouldn't other children's needs be met also?

Parents with kids in the programs that you mention have options. They will leave if these programs are shut down. Then all the system will have is problems. Isn't it better to give more opportunities to everyone by providing advanced opportunities that kids from disadvantaged backgrounds can also use than to just provide them with the crappy opportunities that they have in their neighborhood schools?

As a parent in DCPS I want schools that start from a position of strength.

Every major city has magnet schools. Magnets come with pluses and minuses.

Even the parents of kids who are not proficient want a school focused on taking kids even higher.

And I am in favor of leveling math classes.

Offered me the 25% proficient or the 75% proficient school and I'll take the 75% school.

This parental instinct is shared by African Americans, whites, Hispanic, Native populations, homosexuals, single moms, econ-disadvantaged . . .

As a DCPS parent (Of a Junior at Wilson SHS) I feel there are some serious changes that need to be done. Neighborhood schools are often overlooked, especially in less affluent parts of town, and it seems like there is a clear devide between the haves (at schools like School without Walls, Banneker, Ellington, and somewhat at Wilson [at the academies]) and the have-nots (such as most neighborhood schools). Instead of focusing all its money on improving schooling for ALL students, they are given some students a better ecucation, just because they are labelled as "smart".

I ask why we, as parents, never suggest that the city should close down the magnet schools, or (in some cases) transform them into neighborhood schools, and divert the money, students, and teachers to the schools that the majority of high schoolers in this city have to deal with. I feel like it is a taboo topic to even suggest closing such schools as Walls or Banneker, but it is a necessarily step if we are really dedicated to create a fair school system for everyone. The fact is that we really can't predict the academic strength of a student from their middle school academics, even if our middle schools were actually up to par. We hear about sex, drugs, cheating, all going on at our public middle schools, and we are judging whether to give these students an advantage over the rest based on these years?

The fact is that I am not against the concept of those schools, but we should have a good overall school system before we add specialty schools to it.

Am I the only one who feels like this?