Anonymous wrote:i just don't get it. if you aren't chinese, and don't speak chinese in the home, what's the point of sending your kid to YY? how will you help them with their homework? and do kids REALLY learn in another language when that language isn't spoken in the home? plus, chinese is a really tough language to learn. i'll be happy if my kid just takes up a foreign language by middle school, then studies abroad or something.

Yes, Chinese would be hard to support, but your child will have significantly more difficulty in becoming truly bi-literate in English and Chinese (or any language) if they don't start early in elementary school (there has been many studies that support the 3-7 yr old window). I have a friend who can speak, read and write in English, French and Italian. Her mother is British and speaks minimal French. Her father is bilingual in French and English. She was primarily raised by her mother. By attending a trilingual school from preschool until high school she was able to learn to write and read in 3 languages in addition to learning how to speak her parents native language. I took Spanish in middle and high school, but not immersion (I also studied abroad which helps with basic reading and speaking). I can read at a "8th grade level" and converse for the most part, but my accent is off and I can't write or read at the level of my friend from Switzerland or a friend from Montreal that is fully bilingual in French and English (with appropriate accents in both languages) even though her parents only speak French (she also went to an immersion school from 4 yrs old). I do know a few people that are naturally good at picking up languages and learned to speak one or two languages during high school or college, but for most people, that is not the case.

i just don't get it. if you aren't chinese, and don't speak chinese in the home, what's the point of sending your kid to YY? how will you help them with their homework? and do kids REALLY learn in another language when that language isn't spoken in the home? plus, chinese is a really tough language to learn. i'll be happy if my kid just takes up a foreign language by middle school, then studies abroad or something.

Anonymous wrote:I think it's hard on the parents. My husband had a difficult time because he didn't speak the second language and often felt excluded at family nights. If you don't speak the language, consider whether you will enjoy trying to help your child with science homework in another language starting in 4th grade.

My kids are pretty young, but my observation is that the classes in the bilingual charters (and maybe the DCPS bilinguals?) seem to shrink significantly at the upper grades as kids drop out (I don't think LAMB even has a 5th grade class this year because there's no one left from the original cohort) and of course, it's hard to fill those slots with other kids at the same level of language attainment. So, you need to think about whether there will be sufficient resources to devote to your child's needs once they need assistance in how to write a history paper in another language. As the classes shrink, the number of kids your child will play with will decrease as well, and you may find yourself having to work harder to make appointments for play dates with kids that have left the school.

Also, many of the bilingual programs seem to be in charters, which may not have "specials" teachers (i.e., PE, Art, Music, Science, etc.). This can limit the amount of specialized teaching your child receives. Believe it or not, there actually IS an art to teaching kids how to hop on one foot or throw & catch a ball, and you only get that specialized PE teacher at schools large enough to support the "specials" teachers in the upper grades.

Good point.

DCPS has 8 bilingual schools. DCPCS has 5 bilingual school.

Specials are in all of the schools in some form except the new charter. they are just beginning and special will come with time.

I think it's hard on the parents. My husband had a difficult time because he didn't speak the second language and often felt excluded at family nights. If you don't speak the language, consider whether you will enjoy trying to help your child with science homework in another language starting in 4th grade.

My kids are pretty young, but my observation is that the classes in the bilingual charters (and maybe the DCPS bilinguals?) seem to shrink significantly at the upper grades as kids drop out (I don't think LAMB even has a 5th grade class this year because there's no one left from the original cohort) and of course, it's hard to fill those slots with other kids at the same level of language attainment. So, you need to think about whether there will be sufficient resources to devote to your child's needs once they need assistance in how to write a history paper in another language. As the classes shrink, the number of kids your child will play with will decrease as well, and you may find yourself having to work harder to make appointments for play dates with kids that have left the school.

Also, many of the bilingual programs seem to be in charters, which may not have "specials" teachers (i.e., PE, Art, Music, Science, etc.). This can limit the amount of specialized teaching your child receives. Believe it or not, there actually IS an art to teaching kids how to hop on one foot or throw & catch a ball, and you only get that specialized PE teacher at schools large enough to support the "specials" teachers in the upper grades.

When kids leave, its hard or impossible to fill those slots. Even if the school allows it.

Anonymous wrote:students don't do as well on the Dc-Cas and DCUM slams them for that

I am not a big fan of testing in general, the DC_CAS moreso and don't think any school should be 'slammed for it'. The NCLB purpose of testing today is entirely unrealistic. That being said, assessment for other reasons than docking schools/teachers is less problematic to me. SO, a problem for me with testing at two-way immersion schools is that the children are given standardized content testing in English (DC CAS) but rarely does the school implement standardized testing in the other language to track either content mastery or just linguistic achievement. Oyster did a school wide test for a while (Aprenda) and then just totally abandoned it, in addition to all attempts to keep records on testing in Spanish.
When a two-way school only conducts school-wide tests in one language, this sends a clear message that even though the school is teaching in two languages, achievement in one is what is ultimately valued. Also, it suggests (possibly) that the school does not want its achievement in the second language tracked.

Depends on the program, and whether there is any curriculum besides the "bilingual" aspect.

It's the individual school's spin and self-congratulation that got the critism.

students don't do as well on the Dc-Cas and DCUM slams them for that

Not so much a disadvantage exactly, but the whole bilingual aspect to the school culture can make doing even simple things very complicated. Maybe not so much for YY, where probably few parents speak Chinese, but at a place like LAMB, Oyster or Stokes, where the school itself is trying to make itself a bilingual/trilingual community, it's just a lot of work.

For example, everything has to be translated -- so if you want to do a simple flyer about a potluck, you'd have to have it translated into other languages than English. Sure you can just post it in English, but bleh, that's not really the spirit of the place, so you wait and wait to try to get someone to translate. Also, meetings take twice as long (or you get 50% less done) so your PTA will be harder to organize, or anything else for that matter. Your teachers may be native speakers of the other language, and there may be cultural differences between you and the teachers, or even communication problems. For example, they may not be comfortable writing in English, so you might not be able to use email efficiently to communicate with them. That's really hard if you have a busy work life and can't pick up and drop off in person. Also, sometimes culturally the rah-rah PTA type A mom stuff just doesn't really go over that well. That's nice on the one hand that you can take a break, but on the other hand, let's face it, it's rah rah type A moms who get stuff done. So projects move slower, parental buy-in takes longer.

There are plenty of work-arounds for these things and in fact, I found the school culture to be surprisingly interesting and good for our family. I came in as a type a rah rah mom and left as something different, despite myself. My child really gained a wonderful world perspective from the experience.

Anonymous wrote:Some think they end up being an environment that is slightly less effective at teaching science and math.

That may be the case in some schools in the US, but this is not the case in parts of Canada and Europe (e.g. Switzerland) where bilingual (sometimes Trilingual) schools are the norm. These schools do equally well in math and science. I have many friends/colleagues that were educated in public schools under the bilingual model that are successful in many fields, including math and science. Also, I believe the Washington International School is considered a competitive bilingual private school in the city. I believe like any school, it is the quality of math and science instruction and the ability of the teachers, not the bilingual model that determines the effectiveness of science and math instruction. Not sure about bilingual public schools in DC, but I know in NYC and from what I know of Canada and European schools, the same concepts/instruction in math and science are repeated/given in both languages or math and science is taught in the dominant language.

Some think they end up being an environment that is slightly less effective at teaching science and math.

There is no disadvantage in bilingualism per se. But there is also no one, definitive way to become both bilingual and biliterate.

The advantages of a second language are know so what is the disadvantage of an immersion program like YY, Oyster, LAMB?