Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't buy the theory. I would describe my kids as very mature and independent for their age, but I also describe myself as a borderline helicopter parent. The difference is that I push them to do adult things, but I'm always right there to support them. For example, my almost-3yo daily does big-kid chores like setting the table, putting away laundry, taking out recycling, loading the dishwasher, helping with meals, etc., but for the most part I am right beside him. And my kids regularly play work out disagreements over toys, etc. without my help, but always with me within earshot, so that they can bounce off me for help, or I can step in if things get out of hand. So, while I agree that there are parents who borderline neglect their kids and then congratulate themselves on valuing independence, I think it's both unfair and unwise to tar anyone who values independence with the same brush.

Your 2 yo can load the dishwasher and take out recyclables? Unassisted?

Sometimes helicopter parents have parentified kids too. One of the signs is that kids are pushed to do adult tasks before they are ready. Chores are great but too many responsibilities at a young age are a big red flag.

First PP here. As I said, I am right there, so it is a controled environment (i.e., I load all glass and sharp knives, DS does all the plastic and metal dishes and cutlery, DS is in charge of gathering all recyclables, I carry it to the curb). To the latter PP, I think it's wonderful for kids to have a sense of accomplishment and knowing that they are capable. I am all for free play and relaxation, in fact, my kids switxh days being the designated helper, so if one spends 45 minutes cooking and cleaning with me, not only does that child get time one on one with me and hands-on tasks, the other child gets 45 minutes of uninterupted play without sibling or parent commenting on or interfereing with play. I schedule time in the day for my kids to follow their own interests because I want them to have the freedom of childhood, but I also schedule time working, because I want them to have the confidence and self-esteem of knowing that they have mastered a task. Anyone who has heard a child exclaim with glee, "I did it!" should know that pushing a child to master as much as they can of the world around them doesn't stifle childhood, it gives children the keys to their personal kingdom.

Anonymous wrote:this is an interesting thread. I also had absent parents, and was smart and "mature" for my age. My siblings and I were mini adults. I basically had no guidance whatsoever, and since I was "mature" and smart, I was allowed to do, read, and watch things that were way over my head and left a lot of scars. I read an adult book when I was 8 years old that had the rape and murder of an 8 year old and her mother as the plot line. I still can't imagine how anyone could think an 8 year old girl who was mature for her age was mature enough to handle reading that. (That's just one example.) "Mature" means having had and digested experience, which takes time. It has nothing to do with how a kid acts.

Thanks for bringing this up, OP. I learned a lot reading this thread.

My husband, an only child, had a similar upbringing. His parents are so proud that he was always a little adult, so self-sufficient, etc. He walked home from school at a very young age. Latchkey kid even though they made plenty of money for childcare. They treated him like an adult, and talked to him like an adult - which is funny because they themselves were very immature. Sadly, he ended up being sexually abused by his fifth grade teacher, a predator who recognized that no one was there protecting this bright, "independent" child.

I'm not blaming all parents who have this parenting style. But God, I blame my in-laws. I agree with your defn of the word maturity. My husband learned to act mature, but he was not mature at all. He just ended up as a victim.

this is an interesting thread. I also had absent parents, and was smart and "mature" for my age. My siblings and I were mini adults. I basically had no guidance whatsoever, and since I was "mature" and smart, I was allowed to do, read, and watch things that were way over my head and left a lot of scars. I read an adult book when I was 8 years old that had the rape and murder of an 8 year old and her mother as the plot line. I still can't imagine how anyone could think an 8 year old girl who was mature for her age was mature enough to handle reading that. (That's just one example.) "Mature" means having had and digested experience, which takes time. It has nothing to do with how a kid acts.

Thanks for bringing this up, OP. I learned a lot reading this thread.

All kids are different and all parents are different. This is okay and necessary for a non-cookie-cutter society.

Your choices are fine. Other parents' choices are fine. The only time we really need to worry about other parents' choices is when it gets to the point when CPS should become involved. Then it's time to worry. Until then, live and let live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't buy the theory. I would describe my kids as very mature and independent for their age, but I also describe myself as a borderline helicopter parent. The difference is that I push them to do adult things, but I'm always right there to support them. For example, my almost-3yo daily does big-kid chores like setting the table, putting away laundry, taking out recycling, loading the dishwasher, helping with meals, etc., but for the most part I am right beside him. And my kids regularly play work out disagreements over toys, etc. without my help, but always with me within earshot, so that they can bounce off me for help, or I can step in if things get out of hand. So, while I agree that there are parents who borderline neglect their kids and then congratulate themselves on valuing independence, I think it's both unfair and unwise to tar anyone who values independence with the same brush.

Your 2 yo can load the dishwasher and take out recyclables? Unassisted?

Sometimes helicopter parents have parentified kids too. One of the signs is that kids are pushed to do adult tasks before they are ready. Chores are great but too many responsibilities at a young age are a big red flag.

Anonymous wrote:I don't buy the theory. I would describe my kids as very mature and independent for their age, but I also describe myself as a borderline helicopter parent. The difference is that I push them to do adult things, but I'm always right there to support them. For example, my almost-3yo daily does big-kid chores like setting the table, putting away laundry, taking out recycling, loading the dishwasher, helping with meals, etc., but for the most part I am right beside him. And my kids regularly play work out disagreements over toys, etc. without my help, but always with me within earshot, so that they can bounce off me for help, or I can step in if things get out of hand. So, while I agree that there are parents who borderline neglect their kids and then congratulate themselves on valuing independence, I think it's both unfair and unwise to tar anyone who values independence with the same brush.

Your 2 yo can load the dishwasher and take out recyclables? Unassisted?

As a teacher, I totally know what you mean. I see lots of those parentified kids. Kids who are expending energy on things like learning how to get their needs met at an age when other kids are concentrating on developing their creativity and problem solving skill through play.

I also have to admit that I've thought to myself (not to other people until right now) that my kid is very independent. However, I see that in the context of what I consider age appropriate activities. For example, at age 12, he'd call me as he was walking home from school and tell me his plan for homework, what he was going to do first, what teachers he'd visited after school to clarify assignments, and how he was planning on dividing up the work of his major social studies project so that he could be finished on Tuesday since he remembered that the nighit before it was due was his Grandpa's birthday and he thought maybe he wouldn't have time to edit his final draft. In contrast to this, at age 12, I started my projects when my mom figured out I had them and started nagging, or at 8 the night before they were do, whichever came first.

He also signed up for a foreign language class because he did some research and feels that this particular class will help him on the career path he's chosen. In contrast when I was his age I took Latin, because I lost the form and by the time I got around to telling anyone that I had French and Spanish were full. If I had gotten to chose I would have chosen French because the Spanish teacher smelled funny, and I heard you got to eat nutella crepes in French.

I swear I didn't neglect him to make him like this. He's an only child and I could easily be a total helicopter mom. I also didn't teach him to be this way, because frankly planning and organization are not my strengths. But as one of his teachers said "different kids have different gifts, I think your child's is executive functioning".

I don't buy the theory. I would describe my kids as very mature and independent for their age, but I also describe myself as a borderline helicopter parent. The difference is that I push them to do adult things, but I'm always right there to support them. For example, my almost-3yo daily does big-kid chores like setting the table, putting away laundry, taking out recycling, loading the dishwasher, helping with meals, etc., but for the most part I am right beside him. And my kids regularly play work out disagreements over toys, etc. without my help, but always with me within earshot, so that they can bounce off me for help, or I can step in if things get out of hand. So, while I agree that there are parents who borderline neglect their kids and then congratulate themselves on valuing independence, I think it's both unfair and unwise to tar anyone who values independence with the same brush.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think a mature kid necessarily means that they are left to fend for themselves. Sometimes that is the case, sometimes not. I also think it's possible to encourage independence without leaving them to their own devices and being uninvolved. You have to find the middle ground.

21:23 here. There is a middle ground of course, but "mature" is not really a positive term for a child. Why would we want them to grow up any faster than they already do? A certain amount of independence can be a very good thing but "mature" is usually a whole different ball game, in my experience. I think these days we are also getting a lot of kids like my DH who was the child of two doctors who really just didn't have time for him. They were decent people and they meant well but he was raised by nannies until he was old enough to be a latch key kid. He was independent but not mature and not parentified (because his big sister had that role). He was just running around on his own getting into all kinds of trouble. I see these types all around the city.

I don't think a mature kid necessarily means that they are left to fend for themselves. Sometimes that is the case, sometimes not. I also think it's possible to encourage independence without leaving them to their own devices and being uninvolved. You have to find the middle ground.

I was like OP and I cocoon and suffocate my kids. I can't help it.

There are 2 extremes. Make sure you don't fall into one while trying to avoid the other.

My mother cocooned and suffocated me because she was left to her own devices and forced to fend for herself as a child.
I hope to raise my child in the healthy middle.

I was like you. I believe the psychological term is "parentified." I am very happy that my kids are completely immature and act like kids. But that is usually the case with the children of people like you and me who were forced to act like little adults from a young age and, in my case, to be the the parent of my parents.

How old are your kids? I've never run into this.

UGH! If I have to pander to the moms who make this brag one more time I am going to scream "SHUT UP YOU IDIOT!"

Why?

Because when I hear this I instantly think "uninvolved parent" NOT that they are the greatest mom ever.

Growing up I was that kid and it sucked! My mom was completely uninvolved and any kid I knew who was like me had the same. That's why the kid is so mature - they have to figure out how to take care of them self because basically the parent has checked out.

As a parent now, I tend to steer my kid away from these "mature" kids because I know better. When I was kid, there were parents who I could sense didn't want me around their kids and now I get it. I was making decisions for myself that kids shouldn't be making (most of the time they were the right ones but not always because how the hell does one expect a 12 yr old to have the judgment of an adult) and I knew things way beyond my years that just weren't appropriate for kids to know about or need to know about. I also don't want my kid playing at these houses because I know the supervision will be nill as the parent believes their 7 yr old is mature and can make great choices for themselves all the time!

I know, I know, there will be parents who claim to be the exception but you are not. A little kid does not get "so mature" and "so independent" with an actual parent being involved in parenting because if there was an involved parent there is no need for the little kid to become a miniature adult.