SAM2 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...(c) my understanding is the 25 slots were offered with the goal of improving the magnet's ties to the rest of the school and the larger neighborhood.

...RE your third point, why doesn't e.g. the Eastern MS magnet offer such an advantage to its cluster population? Or the HGCs, for that matter?

PP, your post got me curious, so I went to the Cold Spring ES page for its HGC program. Here's what it says: "Cold Spring is home to one of the six Centers for the Highly Gifted in Montgomery County Public Schools. Selected students from the elementary schools in the Wootton and Churchill Clusters attend our Center." I don't know much about the HGC programs, but this sure makes it sound like that program is even more limited than the Takoma program. Indeed, if Cold Spring is representative of the other magnet/HGC programs, it seems like you should be praising the Takoma program for its willingness to include out-of-cluster applicants.

Like I said though, I'm just learning about these programs, so maybe I am misinterpreting.

No, you are misinterpreting. The HGC programs draw from a given cluster (or in your example, clusters), and students who are admitted attend the given designated school for their particular elementary school cache. My child e.g. in the Lucy Barnsley HGC must attend there by virtue of where our home school is located; she cannot attend e.g. Pinecrest.

No preference is given to students in that cache. All applicants compete equally.

The Takoma MS magnet program is open to students from all over the county. But. For 25 slots, preference is given to students in a given zone.

I don't understand why this is the case, or what it means when PP says it was decided to do it this way to "further neighborhood relations." By that logic, all of these competitive-entrance programs should "further neighborhood relations" by giving preference to immediate-neighborhood students. But, they don't. Only TPMS does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...(c) my understanding is the 25 slots were offered with the goal of improving the magnet's ties to the rest of the school and the larger neighborhood.

...RE your third point, why doesn't e.g. the Eastern MS magnet offer such an advantage to its cluster population? Or the HGCs, for that matter?

PP, your post got me curious, so I went to the Cold Spring ES page for its HGC program. Here's what it says: "Cold Spring is home to one of the six Centers for the Highly Gifted in Montgomery County Public Schools. Selected students from the elementary schools in the Wootton and Churchill Clusters attend our Center." I don't know much about the HGC programs, but this sure makes it sound like that program is even more limited than the Takoma program. Indeed, if Cold Spring is representative of the other magnet/HGC programs, it seems like you should be praising the Takoma program for its willingness to include out-of-cluster applicants.

Like I said though, I'm just learning about these programs, so maybe I am misinterpreting.

Anonymous wrote:My cluster kid had scores right exactly at the average of all admitted kids. That is, DC's scores were higher than about half of the admitted kids. We know another cluster kid who is probably well above the average, and a third cluster kid who is probably about where my kid is.

Possibly you could argue that the average of admitted kids is lower just because of the presence of supposedly less qualified cluster kids. But we're talking about 1/5 of the kids (25/125), so the impact probably isn't that large.

I doubt they would let in any kid who was unqualified in terms of test scores and ability, where there was a risk the kid couldn't keep up with the very demanding coursework. Unqualified kids would flunk out, in addition to dragging down the other kids, and I don't think anybody wants this.

But bear in mind that (a) the MS school options in the cluster in question are worse than the Bethesda/Potomac MS options outside the cluster, (b) the 25 slots are not taken away from the 100 non-cluster slots, and (c) my understanding is the 25 slots were offered with the goal of improving the magnet's ties to the rest of the school and the larger neighborhood.

I don't know what "worse" means in the context of your first point. Could you please explain? If by "worse" you mean, "slated to attend schools with low test scores," then I would refer you to e.g. Sligo MS, which is abysmal by those standards - and yet, the students from that cluster have no such preference.

RE your third point, why doesn't e.g. the Eastern MS magnet offer such an advantage to its cluster population? Or the HGCs, for that matter?

Right, but why add those 25 slots? The net effect is more slots, but also a watering-down of the overall qualifications of the admitted pool of students since the admission bar is lower for the reserved slots.

I don't understand why any slots would be reserved for cluster kids - this is not the practice at any other competitive-admissions MCPS program.

Do you have any data to support this?

Please enlighten us.

My cluster kid had scores right exactly at the average of all admitted kids. That is, DC's scores were higher than about half of the admitted kids. We know another cluster kid who is probably well above the average, and a third cluster kid who is probably about where my kid is.

Possibly you could argue that the average of admitted kids is lower just because of the presence of supposedly less qualified cluster kids. But we're talking about 1/5 of the kids (25/125), so the impact probably isn't that large.

I doubt they would let in any kid who was unqualified in terms of test scores and ability, where there was a risk the kid couldn't keep up with the very demanding coursework. Unqualified kids would flunk out, in addition to dragging down the other kids, and I don't think anybody wants this.

But bear in mind that (a) the MS school options in the cluster in question are worse than the Bethesda/Potomac MS options outside the cluster, (b) the 25 slots are not taken away from the 100 non-cluster slots, and (c) my understanding is the 25 slots were offered with the goal of improving the magnet's ties to the rest of the school and the larger neighborhood.

Right, but why add those 25 slots? The net effect is more slots, but also a watering-down of the overall qualifications of the admitted pool of students since the admission bar is lower for the reserved slots.

I don't understand why any slots would be reserved for cluster kids - this is not the practice at any other competitive-admissions MCPS program.

14:38

Yes, absolutely, it's competitive entry, but those spots are reserved for cluster kids who qualify.

The net effect is more overall slots.

The cluster kids do compete for entry. I do not believe their selection is random.

The deadline for applying and testing into the September 2011 class has passed. What class are you shooting for?

Anonymous wrote:THey implied at the orientation session that they do some gender balancing so probably a girl has a better chance of getting in because fewer girls apply.

However. There are 800 applicants for 100 spots plus 25 additional spots that go to cluster kids. So the odds are not high. By all means apply but don't make it the only acceptable option.

Why do they have 25 additional spots for cluster kids? It is a competitive-admissions program. Makes no sense.

Anonymous wrote:Friend's son is slotted for Silver Spring International Middle School. He is interested in getting the son into Takoma Park's magnet program but is trying to figure out the chance of that happening. Does anyone know whether the FARMS rate of the "home" middle school (SSIMS has a high FARMS rate) has anything to do with whether the son would/not get into TPMS's magnet program? Or whether his gender has any impact? (My friend asked MCPS these questions and received a non-response in response.)

So, again, friend is just trying to figure out the criteria for which kids get into the magnet at TPMS, and whether the high FARMS rate at the home middle school (SSIMS), and his gender (male), will work against him. (I thought since MCPS couldn't answer his questions, maybe the list serve could!). FYI, friend doesn't have a problem with SSIMS, just trying to figure out whether it is worth applying to TPMS.

Thanks!

The FARMS rate of the home middle school is irrelevant.

The gender is irrelevant. (I can tell you from having done research on this wrt the HGC magnet and the language immersion programs that the admissions process is gender-blind which often results in gender imbalance.)

My child is at the magnet program at TPMS and it is a wonderful program. If your friend's son is a good math/science student, is motivated, and is enthusiastic about school, he would enjoy the program.

THey implied at the orientation session that they do some gender balancing so probably a girl has a better chance of getting in because fewer girls apply.

However. There are 800 applicants for 100 spots plus 25 additional spots that go to cluster kids. So the odds are not high. By all means apply but don't make it the only acceptable option.

Me too! (OP here)

His exact questions to MCPS were "Does MCPS take the gender or socioeconomic status of the student applicant into account in admission decisions for TP or Eastern's Middle School application programs?" And same question but does MCPS take into account the "FARMS rate (or other socioeconomic indicator) of the home/sending middle school."

This was the response--to both questions: "MCPS can consider this information but this information cannot be the reason for inviting or not inviting a student."

So, I offered to ask for some real-life answers from real-life people on this list serve.

I find it interesting that he got a "non answer" from MCPS. I would think there would be a clear answer, and the answer would be that neither gender nor FARMS rate would impact whether a child gets accepted into the magnet.

Friend's son is slotted for Silver Spring International Middle School. He is interested in getting the son into Takoma Park's magnet program but is trying to figure out the chance of that happening. Does anyone know whether the FARMS rate of the "home" middle school (SSIMS has a high FARMS rate) has anything to do with whether the son would/not get into TPMS's magnet program? Or whether his gender has any impact? (My friend asked MCPS these questions and received a non-response in response.)

So, again, friend is just trying to figure out the criteria for which kids get into the magnet at TPMS, and whether the high FARMS rate at the home middle school (SSIMS), and his gender (male), will work against him. (I thought since MCPS couldn't answer his questions, maybe the list serve could!). FYI, friend doesn't have a problem with SSIMS, just trying to figure out whether it is worth applying to TPMS.

Thanks!