excellent point 6:35.

If out- of-cluster parents want their kids to continue in the immersion program, they should be happy the program exists at all and continue it at Silver Spring Internatinal if that is where its offered. It should not matter where it is offered. If they wanted a way out of their home school, their kids are in immersion for the wrong reason.

How is my post mean-spirited? Because I call out the people in previous posts who make it seem like immersion parents are just interested in cheaper real estate?

Note that I said "a few disaffected parents." Many parents in both English and Spanish programs get along well and support both programs. But just because you don't have a clue what I'm talking about doesn't mean it's not happening.

What I mean about the magnets is that if you are an out- of-cluster parent who wanted your child to continue to Westland for the immersion program there, and then MCPS discontinues that program, you have missed the deadline for any other choice or magnet program for middle school, and you won't be able to send your child to Westland.

Anonymous wrote:This discussion of immersion parents just signing up to get their kids into BCC programs is a red herring promoted by a few disaffected parents on the neighborhood side of RCF who believe that the immersion program gets too much attention. These same people have complained for several years now that there's a "division in the school" -- which there wasn't until they started complaining and agitating.

It's really disheartening to see that some RCF parents on the English side are so quick to throw their kids' schoolmates under the bus. And it's nasty and underhanded to do it on the listserv, as some above have done.

As the PP said, we're talking about fewer than 80 kids. It's not going to solve the problem or even make much of a dent. People are playing into Jerry Weast's hands if they accept this.

It's also important to point out that many current fifth grade parents did not apply to magnets because they wanted their children to go to Westland. Now that deadline is past.

I think people should stop pushing their petty agendas because they are mad that some people allegedly tried to get a better deal on a house than they did. It's mean-spirited and underhanded.

Actually, your post is the definition of mean-spirited. As for "complaining and agitating", I don't understand the comment at all. I have a child in the English Academy and I don't have a clue what you are talking about. Also I don't know what you mean by fifth grade parents did not apply for magnets because they wanted their children to go to Westland and now the deadline has passed. Who says they can't go to Westland?

This discussion of immersion parents just signing up to get their kids into BCC programs is a red herring promoted by a few disaffected parents on the neighborhood side of RCF who believe that the immersion program gets too much attention. These same people have complained for several years now that there's a "division in the school" -- which there wasn't until they started complaining and agitating.

It's really disheartening to see that some RCF parents on the English side are so quick to throw their kids' schoolmates under the bus. And it's nasty and underhanded to do it on the listserv, as some above have done.

As the PP said, we're talking about fewer than 80 kids. It's not going to solve the problem or even make much of a dent. People are playing into Jerry Weast's hands if they accept this.

It's also important to point out that many current fifth grade parents did not apply to magnets because they wanted their children to go to Westland. Now that deadline is past.

I think people should stop pushing their petty agendas because they are mad that some people allegedly tried to get a better deal on a house than they did. It's mean-spirited and underhanded.

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are just wanting to make sure that everybody is involved in the democratic process and you have no ulterior motives? That's great. So, you must be from one of the Chases. Can you tell us how your PTA feels about whether to move the kids to Westland? I looked at the link you provided and also at the other memos. It appears that there are only 79 immersion kids total (all 3 grades) at Westland who are from outside BCC cluster. There are about 240 kids total going to 6th grade next year from the two Chases. So, moving all the immersion kids wouldn't comfortably make space for all the Chases' 6th graders. Still, it would be a start, especially if the liberal transfer policy is implemented. It's good you're looking out for the poor downtrodden immersion parents at RCF though, you know with their low FARMS rates and all. God bless you.

I know that the CCES and NCCES PTAs oppose the move to Westland, because it will create a Westland MS that is around 1300, becoming one of the biggest MSs in the county and in a few years, long before a new middle school could be built (which isn't a guarantee), there would be around 1500 students. I don't know a single parent in any of the schools that have been formally consulted (which appears to be only BES, CCES, NCC, RHPS, and Westland) that thinks 1500 kids in one middle school with 16 portable trailers is a good idea. Some parents support it anyway because they are concerned that in the interim before a new school is built the educational quality at the Chases' 6th grade, which was until a few years ago before budget cuts generally agreed to be on a par with Westland, that the education at the Chases would continue to decline to a very sub-par level. I seriously wonder what parents at Somerset, Westbrook and RCF think about a MS with 1500 kids?

I agree with you that moving the immersion program out of Westland is no solution for the crowding problem there, yet Weast seems to present it as such. Frankly, it doesn't make much difference to me whether Westland will end up with 1400 or 1500 kids. Either way it will be 400+ kids too big for many years.

I don't actually think the liberal transfer policy should be implemented. Most of the parents at CCES and NCC oppose it because it will seriously gut the program for whatever 6th graders try to stay at CCES or NCC. The BoE members discussed the possibility of a liberal transfer policy, but Weast opposed it (for fear of the "can of worms" it would open, whatever that means....) and some BoE members also recognized that liberal transfer would not solve anything.

I also don't understand your last comment? I don't actually know what the racial/FARMS makeup of the SP program is or the "regular" track at RCF, so I don't know where you get "downtrodden" from? According to another PP the SP immersion program is "upper middle class white families," not downtrodden. I wouldn't know; I don't have kids at RCF.

Yes, as a member of the larger BCC cluster it makes me uncomfortable that half of the schools in the cluster aren't represented in a decision-making process that will affect all cluster students with serious overcrowding at the MS and potentially difficult boundary changes to redistrict a new middle school. And, yes, as a member of my community it makes me VERY uncomfortable to look around a room where a bunch of white parents are making decisions in a cluster that I know has more racial and social diversity than I see at my evening PTA meeting or the BoE meeting. (Why that happens is discussion for a whole 'nother thread.) So, I ask directly in an open forum what parents think. (Although admittedly, I'm guessing that DCUM is not the most racially and economically diverse forum to ask in. I simply know no other.)

If RCF parents (and Somerset and Westbrook) have been sitting around the cluster roundtable since last spring at these meetings and they have arrived at positions that represent their community, then more power to them whatever their positions are. And, if the RCF immersion community prefers Silver Spring MS to Westland, then I'm sure the cluster would support that (not that their support is necessary) - but be clear that it is Weast who has asked for it, not any of the affected communities as far as I can tell. But, if the RCF community prefers the SP immersion to stay at Westland, than I think the BCC cluster should support that (and I'd be willing to bet that they would now that the issue has been raised). IMO, the SP immersion program adds to the general IB them at the MS and HS level and should remain if the participants want it to, but the decision should be made, IMO, after consulting and listening to the RCF/immersion preferences on this issue.

And, crazy but true, if you look at the Weast memos, it is actually slightly cheaper to staff CCES and NCC for 6th grade over 7-8 years instead of moving all the kids to portables at Westland. Why do we finally know this? Because parents made a stink about Weast's recommendations such that the BoE finally asked for cost estimates on Nov. 10 which were received three days ago. (Although the communities have been asking for this for months.)

Anyway, this whole discussion is moot, because by now the BoE has made a decision, having had their facilities meeting tonight (which I missed)..... who knows what happened since the meeting is no longer streamable on the website until it is posted again for viewing?

OP, you are just wanting to make sure that everybody is involved in the democratic process and you have no ulterior motives? That's great. So, you must be from one of the Chases. Can you tell us how your PTA feels about whether to move the kids to Westland? I looked at the link you provided and also at the other memos. It appears that there are only 79 immersion kids total (all 3 grades) at Westland who are from outside BCC cluster. There are about 240 kids total going to 6th grade next year from the two Chases. So, moving all the immersion kids wouldn't comfortably make space for all the Chases' 6th graders. Still, it would be a start, especially if the liberal transfer policy is implemented. It's good you're looking out for the poor downtrodden immersion parents at RCF though, you know with their low FARMS rates and all. God bless you.

My child does go to RCF- and to answer the original question- yes we are absolutely aware of the situation, believe me the listserv has been abuzz about it non-stop. And to the 16:05 poster-- you are ABSOLUTELY correct.

I agree that some of the students at RCF Spanish immersion are there because their parents want them to go to BCC instead of the downcounty consortium. I am not a RCF parent, but I live in Silver Spring in the DCC. They don't live in the BCC district because the houses there cost $200k-$400k more than the houses where they live.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I will admit that I am highly HIGHLY dubious about your claim that you are merely a concerned bystander from another elementary school. I strongly suspect you of being a Spanish immersion parent at RCFES. If you are the parent of a SI student, I think your decision to post here anonymously posing as a parent from outside the school is unethical. Here are some questions for you: If it's important to you to get involved in RCF politics, why don't you contact the PTA directly and ask them what their membership thinks? If you can get Spanish immersion education at SSIMS, then why do you feel you are shortchanged if your child does not matriculate to Westland? If it's important to you that your child goes to Westland, why not just buy a house in the BCC cluster?

I can only say that I am what I claim -- a parent who lives in area neighboring RCF in the BCC cluster. I value diversity in the democratic process and think that everyone in the cluster should know what the Superintendent and the BoE are doing and should have a voice in it.

I did not attend the BCC Cluster Roundtable (only a few select representatives from each school could), but I followed the discussion as presented by our reps. The discussion materials are headed only with the names of BES, CCES, NCCES and RHPS and Westland. Representation is described in these documents as "3 representatives from each of the 5 schools." This language leads me to believe that RCF representatives did not have a seat at the roundtable discussions that recommended building a new middle school. I think they should have (as well as Somerset and Westbrook parents, BTW, but at least Somerset and Westbrook are not likely to be affected in their school placement for middle school due to their physical location. RCF is.) In addition, at least one person commented about the lack of RCF representation in the decision making process during the recent BoE meetings (sorry I can't provide an exact cite for this, but the meetings can be viewed via webcast on the BoE site.) Not only should all cluster schools have a voice in the process of deciding to build a new middle school, but they all should be involved in the process of drawing new boundaries for this middle school.

I can't address your Q's because they assume that I am a SI/RCF parent, which I am not. Although I will say that I did not contact RCF PTA directly because I wanted to hear from parents with various opinions, not just PTA officials voicing the end-state compromises among various points of view. I imagine at RCF, like at our school, parents have different opinions about the merits of the various solutions before the BoE. Plus, I was curious to hear today, since the BoE meets tonight on this issue. I would never expect an individual to reply to me so immediately, but I can be pretty sure to get an answer via DCUM pretty quickly.

BTW, calling troll is not really responsive to the issues at hand. Sort of like criticizing someone's looks instead of the merits of their concerns, if you know what I mean.....

OP, I will admit that I am highly HIGHLY dubious about your claim that you are merely a concerned bystander from another elementary school. I strongly suspect you of being a Spanish immersion parent at RCFES. If you are the parent of a SI student, I think your decision to post here anonymously posing as a parent from outside the school is unethical. Here are some questions for you: If it's important to you to get involved in RCF politics, why don't you contact the PTA directly and ask them what their membership thinks? If you can get Spanish immersion education at SSIMS, then why do you feel you are shortchanged if your child does not matriculate to Westland? If it's important to you that your child goes to Westland, why not just buy a house in the BCC cluster?

The short answer is yes, the parent body and the PTA certainly know.

As for your concerns about the FARMS and low income students, they are predominently in the English part of the school so it would not affect diversity at Westland and BCC.

Most of the immersion students are from upper-middle class white families. Most of whom applied for the program to get into the BCC Cluster. The vast majority of them live in Tacoma Park, Silver Spring and Kensington.

Anonymous wrote:OP here, forgot to ask if RCF parents have seen the relatively weak answer by Weast to a Q by BoE member Laura Berthiaume about whether or not the RCF addition could be delayed by the construction of a 2nd BCC middle school? see link in OP

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/planning/pdf/BOE_MemoResponsesFor11102010Hearing.pdf

OP here, forgot to ask if RCF parents have seen the relatively weak answer by Weast to a Q by BoE member Laura Berthiaume about whether or not the RCF addition could be delayed by the construction of a 2nd BCC middle school? see link in OP

I am not a parent at RCF, rather I am a parent in one of the other BCC cluster schools that have been involved in recent decisions about possible formation of a new middle school. One of the things that disturbs me about this process is that, presumably, a new middle school would involve re-districting RCF students to the new middle school and not Westland, and yet many decisions seem to be under discussion without the input of RCF parents.

Has RCF sent representatives to the community roundtable discussions that have been going on over the past year?

Has the RCF community developed a position on the new middle school? If so, what is it?

Do RCF Spanish Immersion parents know that Weast and the BoE seem to be proposing that the continuation of the Spanish Immersion program at Westland should be moved to Silver Spring International Middle School where there is already a SP immersion program as part of the effort to relieve capacity pressures on Westland?

(See http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/planning/pdf/BOE_MemoResponsesFor11042010WorkSession.pdf for Weast's answer to Q's raised on the SP immersion issue when he and the BoE discussed it at a recent meeting).


I am not a RCF parent, but I am a cluster parent who believes that all affected cluster schools should be at the decision-making table. I am particularly concerned since RCF has a higher proportion of FARMS and minority students, whose views are often under-represented in decision-making processes.