Anonymous wrote:Be a good role model. Stop slagging on your friends and family members who aren't in the room. No snark on your part, no sarcastic quips. No gossip. No swearing. You say please and thank you every time, too. You wait your turn very patiently in line. You're very nice to clerks and service people..If they're having trouble you say no worries, I'm not in a hurry. You be the person you are expecting your teens to be, times ten.

This is op. You're basically describing me. This hasn't been enough.

Adding on to say that this is one reason why I don't want to model "I'm only nice to you when you're nice to me." I teach that we bring kindness and being rude doesn't make the clerk go faster or make a brusque waiter be nicer or help most situations in general. If anything, I might be modeling being a pushover and should probably be careful.

The teen rudeness generally is just at home, as far as I've observed, but who knows exactly what goes on among friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be direct. "Why do you think I'd want to do something for someone who's rude to me?"

+1

+2
My mom actually said this to me when I was being a snotty teen: "I'm not going to go out of my way to do nice things for someone who's not nice to me." Even at the time, I felt like that was fair, and it really changed how I acted towards her (at least, most of the time).

I think there’s two kinds of teen sass and I classify them differently.

There’s the blatantly rude: ugh mom you’re the worst, I hate you, I can’t believe you graduated college, that’s so dumb, etc.

Then there’s the rude that happens because they’re teens who think they know everything but aren’t actually being mean: e.g. you ask a question and they have a snappy tone when they answer but the words aren’t bad, just the tone. You check in on their homework/college apps and they sigh exasperatedly and teensplain how they’re on top of it (even if they’re not). They get irritated when you say something completely innocuous that wouldn’t have irritated them two years ago.

The first type of sass is when I would draw the line and hold back from going overboard with helping them with whatever they want. I would give them a ride to a friends house 5-10 min away, I wouldn’t drive them 2 hours to an amusement park.

It’s important to remember that in order to launch, teens need to separate, and to do that they have to push away a little.

And conditional love…you should check on that. Check on your reactions and make sure you’re not taking normal teen attitude to personally. Because if YOU push THEM away then they will just see that part, not their bit in it. So yes check the blatant teen meanness, but don’t overreact on the general sass.

Anonymous wrote:Be a good role model. Stop slagging on your friends and family members who aren't in the room. No snark on your part, no sarcastic quips. No gossip. No swearing. You say please and thank you every time, too. You wait your turn very patiently in line. You're very nice to clerks and service people..If they're having trouble you say no worries, I'm not in a hurry. You be the person you are expecting your teens to be, times ten.

This is op. You're basically describing me. This hasn't been enough.

Anonymous wrote:Be a good role model. Stop slagging on your friends and family members who aren't in the room. No snark on your part, no sarcastic quips. No gossip. No swearing. You say please and thank you every time, too. You wait your turn very patiently in line. You're very nice to clerks and service people..If they're having trouble you say no worries, I'm not in a hurry. You be the person you are expecting your teens to be, times ten.

This. Except the swearing because it doesn’t bother me.

The amount of mothers of teen girls I hear gossiping is shocking. These mothers say nasty stuff about their DD’s friends and then wonder at the gossip. It shocks me.

Be a good role model. Stop slagging on your friends and family members who aren't in the room. No snark on your part, no sarcastic quips. No gossip. No swearing. You say please and thank you every time, too. You wait your turn very patiently in line. You're very nice to clerks and service people..If they're having trouble you say no worries, I'm not in a hurry. You be the person you are expecting your teens to be, times ten.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can say the words in my question, and I have said variations of this, but it's not quite working and it also doesn't feel like the way I want to model an interaction. It seems like there's something wrong with saying "be nice to people so they give you things back" when generally we expect manners even when nothing is expected in return.

I want my kids to know that I love them unconditionally but if they go around being sassy or rude I'm not going to want to to things that inconvenience me like drive them and their friends to an amusement park a couple hours away or go out of my way to get extra nice birthday presents.

Somehow it comes out wrong, like I'm bribing them to be nice.

Anyone have an effective way to convey this sentiment?

Stop doing things for them and tell them why. "I'm not driving you to the amusement park because you're rude to me." The only way someone learns to stop being rude (IMO) is when they realize their actions have consequences. There's no guarantee it will work, but if you keep taking them places or getting nice presents, they won't have any incentive to stop.

I agree with this in theory. In reality I get a huffy "fine, I won't ever do anything fun again" and a teen who withdraws and is even more rude and avoids spending time at home or talking to anyone.

Teens being teens, it's part of separating and healthy. They'll come back around, once they leave for college and realize there are some true monster parents out there, and you are pretty good

Anonymous wrote:Just be direct. "Why do you think I'd want to do something for someone who's rude to me?"

+1

Just be direct. "Why do you think I'd want to do something for someone who's rude to me?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can say the words in my question, and I have said variations of this, but it's not quite working and it also doesn't feel like the way I want to model an interaction. It seems like there's something wrong with saying "be nice to people so they give you things back" when generally we expect manners even when nothing is expected in return.

I want my kids to know that I love them unconditionally but if they go around being sassy or rude I'm not going to want to to things that inconvenience me like drive them and their friends to an amusement park a couple hours away or go out of my way to get extra nice birthday presents.

Somehow it comes out wrong, like I'm bribing them to be nice.

Anyone have an effective way to convey this sentiment?

Stop doing things for them and tell them why. "I'm not driving you to the amusement park because you're rude to me." The only way someone learns to stop being rude (IMO) is when they realize their actions have consequences. There's no guarantee it will work, but if you keep taking them places or getting nice presents, they won't have any incentive to stop.

This.

My consequence for the very first time they showed me attitude or rudeness is putting a stop to it. My kids are 100% allowed to debate and disagree with me. But, they cannot be rude, yell, show attitude. They are told and reminded that what the consequences will be.

I am raising a family. Not a Democracy. At the end of it all, my words are the last words. I will give them explanation and logic too. If I find merit in their logic and explanation - then I will agree to them.

What do I do? I don't reason. I will chastise them immediately. I withdraw my affection, I tell them to go to their room, all privileges are revoked, no electronics, I don't want to talk to them or see their faces. My kids have usually come back and apologized.

I love my kids and I am a doting mom. But unlike my softie DH who will do anything for the kids - my love is 100% conditional. I don't abide rude and toxic behavior. I don't do this to people and I don't accept it from people.

Anonymous wrote:I can say the words in my question, and I have said variations of this, but it's not quite working and it also doesn't feel like the way I want to model an interaction. It seems like there's something wrong with saying "be nice to people so they give you things back" when generally we expect manners even when nothing is expected in return.

I want my kids to know that I love them unconditionally but if they go around being sassy or rude I'm not going to want to to things that inconvenience me like drive them and their friends to an amusement park a couple hours away or go out of my way to get extra nice birthday presents.

Somehow it comes out wrong, like I'm bribing them to be nice.

Anyone have an effective way to convey this sentiment?

Stop doing things for them and tell them why. "I'm not driving you to the amusement park because you're rude to me." The only way someone learns to stop being rude (IMO) is when they realize their actions have consequences. There's no guarantee it will work, but if you keep taking them places or getting nice presents, they won't have any incentive to stop.

I can’t help but i am stuck in the same stage as you it sucks

I can say the words in my question, and I have said variations of this, but it's not quite working and it also doesn't feel like the way I want to model an interaction. It seems like there's something wrong with saying "be nice to people so they give you things back" when generally we expect manners even when nothing is expected in return.

I want my kids to know that I love them unconditionally but if they go around being sassy or rude I'm not going to want to to things that inconvenience me like drive them and their friends to an amusement park a couple hours away or go out of my way to get extra nice birthday presents.

Somehow it comes out wrong, like I'm bribing them to be nice.

Anyone have an effective way to convey this sentiment?