Anonymous wrote:We struggled with the exact same thing. When you say The Self Driven Child wasn’t helpful, is it because you backed off and your child went ahead and floundered and failed? That, essentially, is the price and the process. You keep offering support, EF coaches, and restrict distractions like screen time, but you don’t use your own motivation to replace theirs. That’s the idea, anyway.

We did essentially follow that guidance. Smart kid with dyslexia and ADHD who simply would not do all the things he’d have to do to get good grades. Refused to go to office hours, retake tests, organize his papers, or do the bare minimum to get grown ups off his back. He graduated with a 3.0, and off he went to college.

Where…he has done really well. He almost failed one class his first semester, which would have meant losing his spot on his sports team. So he asked for help, found out for the first time that “studying” means hours, not minutes, for each exam, and he pulled himself out of the ditch. He now has a better GPA than he did in high school and he is so much happier. He isn’t going to win any academic awards or go to medical school, probably, but I really do think he’s finally got (most) of his stuff together. He had to do it on his time, and give me heartache while he did.

I know other parents of similar kids who did much more scaffolding and forcing work (you can’t force motivation, only compliance). Their kids absolutely got better grades than mine did, without question. They also seem to have made it through their Freshman years intact. But I didn’t fight with my kid, or have power struggles, or have to figure out incentives and punishments. It was a relatively happy high school experience, and after a really rough middle school experience I am grateful for that.

Good luck. These kids are not easy to parent!

Anonymous wrote:We struggled with the exact same thing. When you say The Self Driven Child wasn’t helpful, is it because you backed off and your child went ahead and floundered and failed? That, essentially, is the price and the process. You keep offering support, EF coaches, and restrict distractions like screen time, but you don’t use your own motivation to replace theirs. That’s the idea, anyway.

We did essentially follow that guidance. Smart kid with dyslexia and ADHD who simply would not do all the things he’d have to do to get good grades. Refused to go to office hours, retake tests, organize his papers, or do the bare minimum to get grown ups off his back. He graduated with a 3.0, and off he went to college.

Where…he has done really well. He almost failed one class his first semester, which would have meant losing his spot on his sports team. So he asked for help, found out for the first time that “studying” means hours, not minutes, for each exam, and he pulled himself out of the ditch. He now has a better GPA than he did in high school and he is so much happier. He isn’t going to win any academic awards or go to medical school, probably, but I really do think he’s finally got (most) of his stuff together. He had to do it on his time, and give me heartache while he did.

I know other parents of similar kids who did much more scaffolding and forcing work (you can’t force motivation, only compliance). Their kids absolutely got better grades than mine did, without question. They also seem to have made it through their Freshman years intact. But I didn’t fight with my kid, or have power struggles, or have to figure out incentives and punishments. It was a relatively happy high school experience, and after a really rough middle school experience I am grateful for that.

Good luck. These kids are not easy to parent!

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids. One who thrived and one who is failure to thrive. The difference? Early intervention and sustained efforts. In time, with sustained effort of what you're doing, they will mature and see the light. It took our family 2 years to see the change, but we've finally made it there.

I wrote a similar post when DS was in 8th grade. Did really well in school, very smart, but put in little effort and struggled with EF. He had no study skills and really struggled to "start". I knew that one day this could be their downfall from personal experience so I stayed the course and tried not to get discouraged when I didn't see immediate growth.

In 9th grade we moved them to a school setting where everyone was a high achiever and the bar was raised significantly. We didn't give him the middling option and because of the new environment, he adopted the good habits that his peers shared which reinforced what we had been working on for the past few years. Positive peer pressure and reinforcement from people outside of the family really made the light bulb go off in terms of discovering that intrinsic motivation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 13 yo has ADHD, is on meds, has a 504 plan, works with a math tutor, and works with a therapist on social emotional challenges. Our goal for middle school is to help DS develop study habits and routines now and gradually become more independent. I am not sure that he's making progress on study and school habits, it feels like things mostly get done because I pass along email reminders from teachers about assignments and he often retakes tests to get better grades.

I've read other posts about EF coaches and may look into that. But I'd love to hear from other parents about what has helped make a difference. The hardest part to me is that DS seems content to do the bare minimum, he won't take notes in class, and he refuses to go through and organize his binder (e.g., keep papers for each class in a separate section), even when I sit down with him to do so. It's been very difficult to get him to spend 15-30 min on weekdays checking Canvas or to study for weekly Spanish quizzes, though sometimes it helps if I sit nearby and do my own work. He still gets a mix of Bs and As with minimal effort but I know this will change as he gets older.

We will continue to scaffold and provide support about how to manage the work and break things down into smaller parts. But I worry that at the end of the day, he is content to stick with bare minimum and will resist any coaching or support.

Anyone else figure out how to overcome this and encourage kid to develop more internal motivation? I've read Self-Driven Child but haven't found it to be helpful in our case.

I understand what you’re going through. My daughter is the same way. It’s so frustrating for us both! I book I read that I found helpful is “No-Drama Discipline” by D. Siegel. Some parts of it I found quite helpful. We also started using an EF coach like you mentioned too. Someone on here recommended them (thank you to whoever that person was!). It’s been a big help and we’ve seen progress! The coach has been able to get my daughter to commit to things I couldn’t and holds her accountable which is a good. I wasn’t able to without being the bad guy! It’s great having someone in-between that understands the behaviors and can help mediate. It’s made things less stressful around our house too! Hope that helps. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried bribes?

Tying work to screen use?

Bribes don’t work for ADHD

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way to get him to get internal motivation is to back off and let him handle it himself. Stop “scaffolding” unless it is something with disproportionate importance (like the SAT or high school application or something). My kid manages As and Bs and some Cs with very little interference from me. While I know he is capable of As, he is slowly progressing in his ability to manage his work on his own on a day to day basis. I’m sure if I “scaffolded” him more I could have gotten him up to all As with maybe a B or two, but then he would not have had the chance to figure it out himself

Except, ADHDers do not have internal motivation for anything other than their super special interests.

Anonymous wrote:The only way to get him to get internal motivation is to back off and let him handle it himself. Stop “scaffolding” unless it is something with disproportionate importance (like the SAT or high school application or something). My kid manages As and Bs and some Cs with very little interference from me. While I know he is capable of As, he is slowly progressing in his ability to manage his work on his own on a day to day basis. I’m sure if I “scaffolded” him more I could have gotten him up to all As with maybe a B or two, but then he would not have had the chance to figure it out himself

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried bribes?

Tying work to screen use?

Anonymous wrote:My 13 yo has ADHD, is on meds, has a 504 plan, works with a math tutor, and works with a therapist on social emotional challenges. Our goal for middle school is to help DS develop study habits and routines now and gradually become more independent. I am not sure that he's making progress on study and school habits, it feels like things mostly get done because I pass along email reminders from teachers about assignments and he often retakes tests to get better grades.

I've read other posts about EF coaches and may look into that. But I'd love to hear from other parents about what has helped make a difference. The hardest part to me is that DS seems content to do the bare minimum, he won't take notes in class, and he refuses to go through and organize his binder (e.g., keep papers for each class in a separate section), even when I sit down with him to do so. It's been very difficult to get him to spend 15-30 min on weekdays checking Canvas or to study for weekly Spanish quizzes, though sometimes it helps if I sit nearby and do my own work. He still gets a mix of Bs and As with minimal effort but I know this will change as he gets older.

We will continue to scaffold and provide support about how to manage the work and break things down into smaller parts. But I worry that at the end of the day, he is content to stick with bare minimum and will resist any coaching or support.

Anyone else figure out how to overcome this and encourage kid to develop more internal motivation? I've read Self-Driven Child but haven't found it to be helpful in our case.