Anonymous
03/05/2026 17:04
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op - we love the UWS! We were thinking that having a zoned middle on the UES could really alleviate middle school application stress too. But if it were purely a neighborhood choice we’d prefer to live on the UWS. For the UES the area we’re looking at an apartment in is 86&Lex which seems more run down than the UWS
Wagner is nice but I wouldn't say it's any better than Booker, which is more-or-less the default school on the UWS. Also, if you get a good lottery number, in D2 your potential upgrade choices are ESMS plus three downtown schools (Salk might move but I don't think it would move uptown), while in D3 the upgrades are all on the UWS.
We're in D2 and love it but we also live downtown, where its benefits are maximized.
IMO Booker is hands down the best middle school on the UWS. Don't confuse selectivity with quality.
Depends on how you define best. I found Booker to be insufferable. Principal is extremely rigid - it killed her when she had to go to the lottery and take everyone. She tries to scare people off but still theoretically has to educate all comers. Kids with IEPs are treated like redheaded stepchildren and warehoused.
Too much group think and "what did you get on the test" among students and parents. The high school process is totally miserable. No one can mind their own business.
Academic rigor is great though too much work for the sake of work. Great that they have a robust music program. Can't make sports unless you play travel. Location is not great. Nice that school has its own building rather than sharing.
Each to his own, I guess. I loved the Booker T principal. She didn't cater to whiny snowflake parents. The rigor prepares kids extremely well prepared for SHS schools including Stuy. My kids loved their Booker T friends and had a real neighborhood friend group that stayed cohesive even after going to different HS all over the city. But if your kid needs a ton of support and attention, I wouldn't recommend it, or any large NY public tbh. Truthfully WESS is probably the best MS choice on the UWS - guaranteed spot at a high school where your child will learn nothing, but have a transcript with a 98 average in 15 AP classes, and get into a top college.
That is such a Booker comment. Drank the Kool Aid. Think that you need to do a ton of work to learn something.
I know a number of kids who went to WESS and Computer who did a lot less work yet went on to excel at SHSAT schools (and to feed your Booker obsession, I am referring to top SHSAT schools, even though most of us know that they are all great) and top privates. Booker people look down at these schools, as you did in your comment. It is obnoxious.
And there is a value to having your kid go through middle school, particularly 7th and 8th grade, without the stress of the HS process. Especially the obsessive attitude of people at Booker. Yes, it is very important. But at most other schools in the city, there is not the non-stop conversation about it like there is at Booker. Families take it very seriously but mind their own business.
In 8th grade my child did various activities and hung out socially with a bunch of Booker kids. And they found it miserable being around them. Because they couldn't shut up about it. My child got into "better" schools than most of these kids and has thrived at this school - they were more than adequately prepared without the barrage of work that Elster insists is necessary.
I would also like to note that given the relatively new HS process, if you have a bright kid but veer from the prescribed Booker belief that SHSAT schools are the be all and end all and want your kid to go elsewhere, it is a lot harder to do coming out of Booker because it is almost mandatory to be in Tier 1 to get into a good Gen Ed school and that is harder to do at Booker than elsewhere. I know several Booker families who either decided that SHSAT schools were not right for their kids and/or their kids just weren't good test takers, their kids were in Tier 2, and there was a ton of anxiety around high schools.
Don't get me wrong. Booker is a great school. It has a lot going for it, as I noted. I do wish that some of the other schools upped the rigor a bit more as there is a happy medium between how they were and how Booker is (and I think this is happening). But the irrational attitude that it is the be all, end all is awful and not kind. But you be you.
Sounds like you had a bad experience at Booker T. Sorry about that. Not my/my kids' experience there at all. Not sure when your child was there, but I think there is less homework than there used to be, my kid never had a ton. Agree that if your child is not a good test taker, it is better to be at an easier school or better yet at WESS where you have a guaranteed HS spot.
My info is a few years dated but Elster consistently told parents to expect a few hours of homework a night. No ifs, ands or buts. She clearly wanted to scare people off. Which is not in the spirit of NYC DOE and the current lottery system. Perhaps as you said things have changed and become more reasonable - if so, kudos to her. I strongly believe in academic rigor. But I also believe in balance and not doing busy work. And at least a few years ago, there was a lot of busy work.
Anonymous
03/05/2026 16:44
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op - we love the UWS! We were thinking that having a zoned middle on the UES could really alleviate middle school application stress too. But if it were purely a neighborhood choice we’d prefer to live on the UWS. For the UES the area we’re looking at an apartment in is 86&Lex which seems more run down than the UWS
Wagner is nice but I wouldn't say it's any better than Booker, which is more-or-less the default school on the UWS. Also, if you get a good lottery number, in D2 your potential upgrade choices are ESMS plus three downtown schools (Salk might move but I don't think it would move uptown), while in D3 the upgrades are all on the UWS.
We're in D2 and love it but we also live downtown, where its benefits are maximized.
IMO Booker is hands down the best middle school on the UWS. Don't confuse selectivity with quality.
Depends on how you define best. I found Booker to be insufferable. Principal is extremely rigid - it killed her when she had to go to the lottery and take everyone. She tries to scare people off but still theoretically has to educate all comers. Kids with IEPs are treated like redheaded stepchildren and warehoused.
Too much group think and "what did you get on the test" among students and parents. The high school process is totally miserable. No one can mind their own business.
Academic rigor is great though too much work for the sake of work. Great that they have a robust music program. Can't make sports unless you play travel. Location is not great. Nice that school has its own building rather than sharing.
Each to his own, I guess. I loved the Booker T principal. She didn't cater to whiny snowflake parents. The rigor prepares kids extremely well prepared for SHS schools including Stuy. My kids loved their Booker T friends and had a real neighborhood friend group that stayed cohesive even after going to different HS all over the city. But if your kid needs a ton of support and attention, I wouldn't recommend it, or any large NY public tbh. Truthfully WESS is probably the best MS choice on the UWS - guaranteed spot at a high school where your child will learn nothing, but have a transcript with a 98 average in 15 AP classes, and get into a top college.
That is such a Booker comment. Drank the Kool Aid. Think that you need to do a ton of work to learn something.
I know a number of kids who went to WESS and Computer who did a lot less work yet went on to excel at SHSAT schools (and to feed your Booker obsession, I am referring to top SHSAT schools, even though most of us know that they are all great) and top privates. Booker people look down at these schools, as you did in your comment. It is obnoxious.
And there is a value to having your kid go through middle school, particularly 7th and 8th grade, without the stress of the HS process. Especially the obsessive attitude of people at Booker. Yes, it is very important. But at most other schools in the city, there is not the non-stop conversation about it like there is at Booker. Families take it very seriously but mind their own business.
In 8th grade my child did various activities and hung out socially with a bunch of Booker kids. And they found it miserable being around them. Because they couldn't shut up about it. My child got into "better" schools than most of these kids and has thrived at this school - they were more than adequately prepared without the barrage of work that Elster insists is necessary.
I would also like to note that given the relatively new HS process, if you have a bright kid but veer from the prescribed Booker belief that SHSAT schools are the be all and end all and want your kid to go elsewhere, it is a lot harder to do coming out of Booker because it is almost mandatory to be in Tier 1 to get into a good Gen Ed school and that is harder to do at Booker than elsewhere. I know several Booker families who either decided that SHSAT schools were not right for their kids and/or their kids just weren't good test takers, their kids were in Tier 2, and there was a ton of anxiety around high schools.
Don't get me wrong. Booker is a great school. It has a lot going for it, as I noted. I do wish that some of the other schools upped the rigor a bit more as there is a happy medium between how they were and how Booker is (and I think this is happening). But the irrational attitude that it is the be all, end all is awful and not kind. But you be you.
Sounds like you had a bad experience at Booker T. Sorry about that. Not my/my kids' experience there at all. Not sure when your child was there, but I think there is less homework than there used to be, my kid never had a ton. Agree that if your child is not a good test taker, it is better to be at an easier school or better yet at WESS where you have a guaranteed HS spot.
Anonymous
03/05/2026 09:07
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op - we love the UWS! We were thinking that having a zoned middle on the UES could really alleviate middle school application stress too. But if it were purely a neighborhood choice we’d prefer to live on the UWS. For the UES the area we’re looking at an apartment in is 86&Lex which seems more run down than the UWS
Wagner is nice but I wouldn't say it's any better than Booker, which is more-or-less the default school on the UWS. Also, if you get a good lottery number, in D2 your potential upgrade choices are ESMS plus three downtown schools (Salk might move but I don't think it would move uptown), while in D3 the upgrades are all on the UWS.
We're in D2 and love it but we also live downtown, where its benefits are maximized.
IMO Booker is hands down the best middle school on the UWS. Don't confuse selectivity with quality.
Depends on how you define best. I found Booker to be insufferable. Principal is extremely rigid - it killed her when she had to go to the lottery and take everyone. She tries to scare people off but still theoretically has to educate all comers. Kids with IEPs are treated like redheaded stepchildren and warehoused.
Too much group think and "what did you get on the test" among students and parents. The high school process is totally miserable. No one can mind their own business.
Academic rigor is great though too much work for the sake of work. Great that they have a robust music program. Can't make sports unless you play travel. Location is not great. Nice that school has its own building rather than sharing.
Each to his own, I guess. I loved the Booker T principal. She didn't cater to whiny snowflake parents. The rigor prepares kids extremely well prepared for SHS schools including Stuy. My kids loved their Booker T friends and had a real neighborhood friend group that stayed cohesive even after going to different HS all over the city. But if your kid needs a ton of support and attention, I wouldn't recommend it, or any large NY public tbh. Truthfully WESS is probably the best MS choice on the UWS - guaranteed spot at a high school where your child will learn nothing, but have a transcript with a 98 average in 15 AP classes, and get into a top college.
That is such a Booker comment. Drank the Kool Aid. Think that you need to do a ton of work to learn something.
I know a number of kids who went to WESS and Computer who did a lot less work yet went on to excel at SHSAT schools (and to feed your Booker obsession, I am referring to top SHSAT schools, even though most of us know that they are all great) and top privates. Booker people look down at these schools, as you did in your comment. It is obnoxious.
And there is a value to having your kid go through middle school, particularly 7th and 8th grade, without the stress of the HS process. Especially the obsessive attitude of people at Booker. Yes, it is very important. But at most other schools in the city, there is not the non-stop conversation about it like there is at Booker. Families take it very seriously but mind their own business.
In 8th grade my child did various activities and hung out socially with a bunch of Booker kids. And they found it miserable being around them. Because they couldn't shut up about it. My child got into "better" schools than most of these kids and has thrived at this school - they were more than adequately prepared without the barrage of work that Elster insists is necessary.
I would also like to note that given the relatively new HS process, if you have a bright kid but veer from the prescribed Booker belief that SHSAT schools are the be all and end all and want your kid to go elsewhere, it is a lot harder to do coming out of Booker because it is almost mandatory to be in Tier 1 to get into a good Gen Ed school and that is harder to do at Booker than elsewhere. I know several Booker families who either decided that SHSAT schools were not right for their kids and/or their kids just weren't good test takers, their kids were in Tier 2, and there was a ton of anxiety around high schools.
Don't get me wrong. Booker is a great school. It has a lot going for it, as I noted. I do wish that some of the other schools upped the rigor a bit more as there is a happy medium between how they were and how Booker is (and I think this is happening). But the irrational attitude that it is the be all, end all is awful and not kind. But you be you.
Anonymous
03/05/2026 09:01
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
One important thing to note here on D2 zoned middle schools: all of them have 'screened programs' now, based on your 4th grade GPA, which you are *not* guaranteed admission to - or treated any differently than any other kid in D2 for - if you live in the zone. And generally half of the school is in that program, so if your kid is admitted as a zoned student rather than an SP kid, they're specifically with the slower kids. (there does seem to be some possibility of movement between SP and non but as I understand they're cutting back on that because the kids they've moved up have struggled with math)
They're not *that* competitive, since (despite their lack of similar programs) Salk/Lab/Clinton/ESMS are more sought after and most of the people with good lottery numbers seek out one of those, and there's still priority for D2, but it does mean that having a zoned school does not act as a get-out-of-middle-school-admissions free card.
D2 is still on balance probably the best school district in the city and it might well be worth moving to the UES even just to have access to its lottery options, but 'zoned middle schools' specifically are not a good reason to pick it.
They're not *that* competitive, since (despite their lack of similar programs) Salk/Lab/Clinton/ESMS are more sought after and most of the people with good lottery numbers seek out one of those, and there's still priority for D2, but it does mean that having a zoned school does not act as a get-out-of-middle-school-admissions free card.
D2 is still on balance probably the best school district in the city and it might well be worth moving to the UES even just to have access to its lottery options, but 'zoned middle schools' specifically are not a good reason to pick it.
Anonymous
03/05/2026 08:21
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op - we love the UWS! We were thinking that having a zoned middle on the UES could really alleviate middle school application stress too. But if it were purely a neighborhood choice we’d prefer to live on the UWS. For the UES the area we’re looking at an apartment in is 86&Lex which seems more run down than the UWS
Wagner is nice but I wouldn't say it's any better than Booker, which is more-or-less the default school on the UWS. Also, if you get a good lottery number, in D2 your potential upgrade choices are ESMS plus three downtown schools (Salk might move but I don't think it would move uptown), while in D3 the upgrades are all on the UWS.
We're in D2 and love it but we also live downtown, where its benefits are maximized.
IMO Booker is hands down the best middle school on the UWS. Don't confuse selectivity with quality.
Depends on how you define best. I found Booker to be insufferable. Principal is extremely rigid - it killed her when she had to go to the lottery and take everyone. She tries to scare people off but still theoretically has to educate all comers. Kids with IEPs are treated like redheaded stepchildren and warehoused.
Too much group think and "what did you get on the test" among students and parents. The high school process is totally miserable. No one can mind their own business.
Academic rigor is great though too much work for the sake of work. Great that they have a robust music program. Can't make sports unless you play travel. Location is not great. Nice that school has its own building rather than sharing.
Each to his own, I guess. I loved the Booker T principal. She didn't cater to whiny snowflake parents. The rigor prepares kids extremely well prepared for SHS schools including Stuy. My kids loved their Booker T friends and had a real neighborhood friend group that stayed cohesive even after going to different HS all over the city. But if your kid needs a ton of support and attention, I wouldn't recommend it, or any large NY public tbh. Truthfully WESS is probably the best MS choice on the UWS - guaranteed spot at a high school where your child will learn nothing, but have a transcript with a 98 average in 15 AP classes, and get into a top college.
Anonymous
03/04/2026 22:23
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op - we love the UWS! We were thinking that having a zoned middle on the UES could really alleviate middle school application stress too. But if it were purely a neighborhood choice we’d prefer to live on the UWS. For the UES the area we’re looking at an apartment in is 86&Lex which seems more run down than the UWS
Wagner is nice but I wouldn't say it's any better than Booker, which is more-or-less the default school on the UWS. Also, if you get a good lottery number, in D2 your potential upgrade choices are ESMS plus three downtown schools (Salk might move but I don't think it would move uptown), while in D3 the upgrades are all on the UWS.
We're in D2 and love it but we also live downtown, where its benefits are maximized.
IMO Booker is hands down the best middle school on the UWS. Don't confuse selectivity with quality.
Depends on how you define best. I found Booker to be insufferable. Principal is extremely rigid - it killed her when she had to go to the lottery and take everyone. She tries to scare people off but still theoretically has to educate all comers. Kids with IEPs are treated like redheaded stepchildren and warehoused.
Too much group think and "what did you get on the test" among students and parents. The high school process is totally miserable. No one can mind their own business.
Academic rigor is great though too much work for the sake of work. Great that they have a robust music program. Can't make sports unless you play travel. Location is not great. Nice that school has its own building rather than sharing.
Anonymous
03/04/2026 18:26
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op - we love the UWS! We were thinking that having a zoned middle on the UES could really alleviate middle school application stress too. But if it were purely a neighborhood choice we’d prefer to live on the UWS. For the UES the area we’re looking at an apartment in is 86&Lex which seems more run down than the UWS
Wagner is nice but I wouldn't say it's any better than Booker, which is more-or-less the default school on the UWS. Also, if you get a good lottery number, in D2 your potential upgrade choices are ESMS plus three downtown schools (Salk might move but I don't think it would move uptown), while in D3 the upgrades are all on the UWS.
We're in D2 and love it but we also live downtown, where its benefits are maximized.
IMO Booker is hands down the best middle school on the UWS. Don't confuse selectivity with quality.
Wasn’t intending to, my point was that it’s *not* a bad default.
Anonymous
03/04/2026 17:20
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op - we love the UWS! We were thinking that having a zoned middle on the UES could really alleviate middle school application stress too. But if it were purely a neighborhood choice we’d prefer to live on the UWS. For the UES the area we’re looking at an apartment in is 86&Lex which seems more run down than the UWS
Wagner is nice but I wouldn't say it's any better than Booker, which is more-or-less the default school on the UWS. Also, if you get a good lottery number, in D2 your potential upgrade choices are ESMS plus three downtown schools (Salk might move but I don't think it would move uptown), while in D3 the upgrades are all on the UWS.
We're in D2 and love it but we also live downtown, where its benefits are maximized.
IMO Booker is hands down the best middle school on the UWS. Don't confuse selectivity with quality.
Anonymous
03/04/2026 10:54
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Anonymous wrote:Op - we love the UWS! We were thinking that having a zoned middle on the UES could really alleviate middle school application stress too. But if it were purely a neighborhood choice we’d prefer to live on the UWS. For the UES the area we’re looking at an apartment in is 86&Lex which seems more run down than the UWS
Wagner is nice but I wouldn't say it's any better than Booker, which is more-or-less the default school on the UWS. Also, if you get a good lottery number, in D2 your potential upgrade choices are ESMS plus three downtown schools (Salk might move but I don't think it would move uptown), while in D3 the upgrades are all on the UWS.
We're in D2 and love it but we also live downtown, where its benefits are maximized.
Anonymous
03/04/2026 10:44
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Op - we love the UWS! We were thinking that having a zoned middle on the UES could really alleviate middle school application stress too. But if it were purely a neighborhood choice we’d prefer to live on the UWS. For the UES the area we’re looking at an apartment in is 86&Lex which seems more run down than the UWS
Anonymous
03/04/2026 10:20
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
There is not a meaningful difference between the two IMO. I think the bigger question is whether you want to stay on the UWS or move to the UES?
Anonymous
03/04/2026 07:45
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
Both are great options. My research is a bit dated. I'm a west sider (ps9) so have my natural bias but I actually probably preferred the feel of 6 over 87. Just liked the overall feel of it better, though I also liked 87 a lot. I think PS6 is slightly smaller (more in line with PS9 and PS199) while not being tiny, which is my preference. I do not know the current principals at either which is something to strongly consider.
I do like the community at 87 and how a lot of the kids and families from 87 and other local schools hang out at the playground there on weekends. Not sure if the same exists at 6.
That being said, if you like being on the west side already, the difference isn't huge so I would do 87.
Not to look too far ahead, but an apartment zoned for 87 is also really close to Computer School which is a popular middle school (though that world is rapidly evolving so who knows what it will be by the time your kid gets there). Lots of great middle schools on the east side though they are more spread out. But that is miles down the road for you.
I do like the community at 87 and how a lot of the kids and families from 87 and other local schools hang out at the playground there on weekends. Not sure if the same exists at 6.
That being said, if you like being on the west side already, the difference isn't huge so I would do 87.
Not to look too far ahead, but an apartment zoned for 87 is also really close to Computer School which is a popular middle school (though that world is rapidly evolving so who knows what it will be by the time your kid gets there). Lots of great middle schools on the east side though they are more spread out. But that is miles down the road for you.
Anonymous
03/04/2026 07:08
Subject: Ps 87 vs ps 6?
We’re looking to move from our rental to a purchased apartment. The 2 we like are very similar - but one is in ps 87 and the other in ps 6. We’d be entering at K (one child). Any thoughts? They both seem great (our current rental is for ps 199 which also seems great).