Increased costs is just common sense. PGCPS isn't cutting programs that are succeeding, the Kettering program is a hot mess. The budget documents say that eliminating those under enrolled programs will save $2.5 million dollars. Eliminating the ES and MS IB programs will save another $2.8 million.

If there wasn't significant costs associated with classrooms with 10 students, then we wouldn't have kindergarten classes with 25+ students. The attrition rate from elementary to middle school grades in a most of the language immersion programs is close to 50% for some cohorts. If you start with a class of 90 in kindergarten that number is down to 45 by 6th or 7th grade, and then down by another 50% or more for high school. So you are buying and running an entire high school curriculum (including electives) in French/Spanish for 40+ kids a grade?

In my experience, parents would be much better served to figure out how to guarantee their kids a path to a middle or high school with advanced course work in that language if it is important to them. Get a guarantee that the elementary immersion kids would get entry into a middle school or high school with advanced course offerings.

Anonymous wrote:I would guess the cost per student is much higher than a regular student and finding bilingual staff in all the subjects must be challenging.
I know that some of the Kettering immersion classes were under 10 students which is really unsustainable in a tight budget cycle.

You can guess that but without the data to back it up, how would we know? Is the delta between the cost of a kettering kid in immersion $1 a year? $ 100? $1,000? It would be good to know real numbers instead of guesses.

Anonymous wrote:French immersion high school program has been around for decades.

There are other programs being discussed. The woman who worked on getting other programs created just spoke at the meeting and her kid who was in the first K program at one of the Spanish immersion schools is in the 11th grade.

French immersion high school program has been around for decades.

I would guess the cost per student is much higher than a regular student and finding bilingual staff in all the subjects must be challenging.
I know that some of the Kettering immersion classes were under 10 students which is really unsustainable in a tight budget cycle.

* to the point

This low enrollment part is odd considering the program is just getting to the post where the kids who started in K would be enrolled and enrollment numbers for K are fairly low. You're just getting the first crop of seniors achieving those dual language diploma and certifications.
Seems like you would need to show feeder school/program data to see the real worth considering current enrollment multiplied the average per student cost comes out to equal the budget cut they're making.

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is going to happen to Dora Kennedy, Caesar Chavez, Maya Angelou, Williams etc. Those programs are in high demand and have proven outcomes. If anything, this is a good argument to keeping them as K-8 schools.

The programs that are being cut have:
- low enrollment compared to the costs needed to staff all the classrooms (e.g. Spanish Immersion at Kettering, Largo)
- Low parent engagement (Chinese Immersion at Paintbranch)
-Cost of running the program has increased with little measurable impact (Elementary and Middle School IB programs).

Cuts have to be made and these make a ton of sense to me.

What language parents should push for is ensuring that their kids have a path to higher levels of French/Spanish after middle and high school. That may mean they can enroll at ERHS or another school that offers those advanced AP classes.

Thanks. This is a really helpful explanation.

I would be curious to hear how many high school immersion students there actually are outside of the International High Schools.

I bet the number is less than 0.5% of the 40,000 high schoolers.

Nothing is going to happen to Dora Kennedy, Caesar Chavez, Maya Angelou, Williams etc. Those programs are in high demand and have proven outcomes. If anything, this is a good argument to keeping them as K-8 schools.

The programs that are being cut have:
- low enrollment compared to the costs needed to staff all the classrooms (e.g. Spanish Immersion at Kettering, Largo)
- Low parent engagement (Chinese Immersion at Paintbranch)
-Cost of running the program has increased with little measurable impact (Elementary and Middle School IB programs).

Cuts have to be made and these make a ton of sense to me.

What language parents should push for is ensuring that their kids have a path to higher levels of French/Spanish after middle and high school. That may mean they can enroll at ERHS or another school that offers those advanced AP classes.

https://www.change.org/p/save-pgcps-language-immersion-programs

This was sent in a neighborhood group. I’m trying to get a sense of what’s actually being proposed. It sounds like all Mandarin immersion programs from elementary through high school are being cut from the new budget, and all other high school level immersion programs. Does anyone have more context or know how this would affect schools like Dora Kennedy or Chavez?