We have 2 college kids, one at a Top 100 (did not hire a consultant) one at an Ivy (hired consultant). Although it would seem I'm arguing to hire a consultant IF the goal is a Top 20 school, my answer is: it depends.

For the sake of argument, let's say the goal is a Top 20 school (which we all know is a crapshoot at a large level anyway):

The initial barrier to entry is grades (3.9+ GPA) and standardized test scores (generally 1500+ / 34+). Not sure a traditional counselor does much on the grades piece BUT a testing tutor can be a huge help - we hired one for both of our kids outside of the counselor and this is the #1 recommendation I would make if you want to spend $$ on any part of this process. Both of their SAT scores went way up working with a tutor.

As far as the counselor, IMO it depends on how hands on/hands off the parent wants to be/can be and more importantly how much the child is willing to allow their parent to be involved.

If the parent has the time/desire to be hands on and the child is OK with it, IMO the parent can learn a ton through podcasts, what's posted online/in social media and (yes... I'm about to say it) using AI as a research tool. That involves a really big time commitment, but it is doable. And obviously saves a boatload of $$.

If the parents don't have time, and more importantly it would benefit the relationship between parents/children for parents to be out of the picture, a consultant can be very helpful. We as parents did not want to compromise this piece, and based on what we know about our kids and heard from them, we chose a consultant for one child but not the other.

Not sure any of this is helpful, but like so much else in this process, do what you feel is in the best interests of your child recognizing, when it comes down to it, there is only so much anyone can control. Even when you put a lot of $$ into it.

Anonymous wrote:
But the kid also has to be doing exceptionally well in school. I would imagine that most families who have money for this type of counseling are private school kids and it's not easy to do well at many top privates. In our experience at a Big3 school, the unhooked Ivy admits (aside from Cornell) are all from the top of the class. I had one of these kids and they got into an Ivy with their own random assortment of extracurriculars and our haphazard attempt at guiding a narrative in the 11th hour. So no 4-5 years of packaging is needed if the grades are there. And no packaging will help if the grades are not there. So honestly, I don't see the point of it.

Just curious how do you track this? Maybe true for the year(s) your DC(s) is applying. Do you track them year after year? How do you know them so well that you can tell every single one who is hooked who is unhooked?

I am not challenging your general point that you need good grades. But when people start using "all" "only" in their sentences, particularly based on their own limited observation/experience, question marks comes up.

Holistic review applies to public school as well as to private schools.

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any difference in outcome between the two groups in the end.

Savvy parents who understand "narrative" can help their kids. I did it in reverse. Let them live their lives, and organize it into a "story" summer before senior year. Two at T10 school

Same here. No consultants. We brainstormed common app essay topics with our kids. One kid had a ACT tutor but that is it. Both at Ivies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly the only counselors who can truly move the needle are the ones who are planning things from at least grade 9 on. If you simply hire someone when your kid is a junior or senior then it's too late.

But the kid also has to be doing exceptionally well in school. I would imagine that most families who have money for this type of counseling are private school kids and it's not easy to do well at many top privates. In our experience at a Big3 school, the unhooked Ivy admits (aside from Cornell) are all from the top of the class. I had one of these kids and they got into an Ivy with their own [b]random assortment of extracurriculars and our haphazard attempt at guiding a narrative in the 11th hour. So no 4-5 years of packaging is needed if the grades are there. And no packaging will help if the grades are not there. So honestly, I don't see the point of it.

Maybe it's more helpful in the public realm where there are large classes and many kids with top grades and so it's important for kids to have very built-out narratives to separate them from their academically identical peers.

[/b]

Can you give examples of these random activities and narratives? Give equivalents if you want to protect your identity. Thanks!

By random I mean: a varsity sport, some volunteer work, some student leadership, one internship in something unrelated to intended major.
No theme or packaging.

Our good but not great private does fine with college placements. Could be better, could be worse. They try to take a more low key approach which is great but they also largely hold off on discussing college until junior year, which I feel is too late.

I don't think everything a kid does should be solely to help an application, but it at least has to start being on your radar by mid-sophomore year. Start having a preliminary list of schools to visit (especially if in the area anyway). What electives to take junior year. What activities to really focus on. What to do summer before junior year. Mapping out testing scheduling.

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of it depends on your relationship with your child, as well as your child's work style. Some kids are made for this kind of thing and can largely do it on their own. Others find it more challenging (which is the majority) but are receptive to parental input from parents who get the joke. Others don't want to listen to the parents and thus need a third party. My child is very responsive to one parent and refuses to listen to the other.

But even if a child listens to the parents, what do the parents tell them? Write these 4 emails to the tour guide and admission officers you met on campus tours? Does that actually help with getting accepted?

I think a lot of it depends on your relationship with your child, as well as your child's work style. Some kids are made for this kind of thing and can largely do it on their own. Others find it more challenging (which is the majority) but are receptive to parental input from parents who get the joke. Others don't want to listen to the parents and thus need a third party. My child is very responsive to one parent and refuses to listen to the other.

Anonymous wrote:Frankly the only counselors who can truly move the needle are the ones who are planning things from at least grade 9 on. If you simply hire someone when your kid is a junior or senior then it's too late.

But the kid also has to be doing exceptionally well in school. I would imagine that most families who have money for this type of counseling are private school kids and it's not easy to do well at many top privates. In our experience at a Big3 school, the unhooked Ivy admits (aside from Cornell) are all from the top of the class. I had one of these kids and they got into an Ivy with their own [b]random assortment of extracurriculars and our haphazard attempt at guiding a narrative in the 11th hour. So no 4-5 years of packaging is needed if the grades are there. And no packaging will help if the grades are not there. So honestly, I don't see the point of it.

Maybe it's more helpful in the public realm where there are large classes and many kids with top grades and so it's important for kids to have very built-out narratives to separate them from their academically identical peers.

[/b]

Can you give examples of these random activities and narratives? Give equivalents if you want to protect your identity. Thanks!

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the kids, private consultants could be super helpful, or useless. The key is in the kids.

There's a lot of truth in this.

--Private Consultant

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any difference in outcome between the two groups in the end.

Savvy parents who understand "narrative" can help their kids. I did it in reverse. Let them live their lives, and organize it into a "story" summer before senior year. Two at T10 school

With this approach (and I applaud you), don’t you take the risk of having holes in your narrative that you can’t turn back time to fill if you’re missing some essential courses or activities?

Frankly the only counselors who can truly move the needle are the ones who are planning things from at least grade 9 on. If you simply hire someone when your kid is a junior or senior then it's too late.

But the kid also has to be doing exceptionally well in school. I would imagine that most families who have money for this type of counseling are private school kids and it's not easy to do well at many top privates. In our experience at a Big3 school, the unhooked Ivy admits (aside from Cornell) are all from the top of the class. I had one of these kids and they got into an Ivy with their own random assortment of extracurriculars and our haphazard attempt at guiding a narrative in the 11th hour. So no 4-5 years of packaging is needed if the grades are there. And no packaging will help if the grades are not there. So honestly, I don't see the point of it.

Maybe it's more helpful in the public realm where there are large classes and many kids with top grades and so it's important for kids to have very built-out narratives to separate them from their academically identical peers.

I didn't see any difference in outcome between the two groups in the end.

Savvy parents who understand "narrative" can help their kids. I did it in reverse. Let them live their lives, and organize it into a "story" summer before senior year. Two at T10 school

Your first paragraph correctly describes what happens.

Depends on the kids, private consultants could be super helpful, or useless. The key is in the kids.

A close friend who tends to be more savvy about these things told me over a holiday get-together she knows some families in our school who hire private consultants who plan the kids’ whole life since 7th grade: help them apply to or even write essays for summer programs, plan sports (plan competition schedule and travel if it’s an individual sport without team schedule, summer skill camps at Ivies), school club leadership (how to recruit members, plan highly visible activities, manage their Instagram to document large gatherings, accomplishments), all the way down to drafting weekly emails for the kid to send to coaches, professors and college tour guides, band leaders they met on tours or summer programs over 4 years to establish relationships in a strategic and unannoying way. These are all before helping them ace the SAT and write their application essays.

Another friend told me last year (she had older kids and know many parents who have been through the process in the past decade) private consultants are useless, that the ones she knew who use them are getting into T25-50 colleges after spending tens of thousands, but not the most selective ones, because the top ones see through the consultants’ finger prints all over an app.

So which is true? I know as with a lot of cases, the answer is “it depends”, perhaps a great consultant could do those things. We have zero plan to use one (we don’t even have a tutor!) but I’m so disheartened that DC who works so hard to get top grades, work so hard on weekends at his part time job is competing under these circumstances. If that’s true, I want to take my kids out of the game and just apply to Canada, which is where DH is from, where you shouldn’t have to play these games to get in.

Anyone BTDT has real insights?