Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we're discussing nature vs nurture, the problem is that due to patriarchal beliefs, there are more boys than girls that are pushed into math and the intense extra curricular preparation that comes with the math competition territory.

Therefore, scientifically, you cannot conclude that boy brains are naturally "better" at a certain kind of math reasoning than girl brains. That brains are different by sex has been known for decades... but we still don't understand the ramifications of the physical differences in the real world, because it's very difficult to separate behavior from upbringing.

I'm a woman, and I disagree with your statement. Go to predominantly Asian schools, and you'll see plenty of parents pushing girls into math. Then there's the whole push for Girls in STEM.

Males just think differently than females. It doesn't mean they are smarter, but just different. And this difference makes them stronger in mathy type subjects. Females are great multi-taskers and can see patterns in people and events a lot better than males can, while males have better spatial awareness.

There are articles about such differences, and I see it play out not only with my own kids (boy and girl) but also in the workplace.

Of course, as in all cases, ymmv, and there are plenty of girls who are amazing at math and algortihms (Ada Lovelace says hello), and certainly plenty of men who are terrible at math.

Very well put.

Dad of a boy and girl. DS is objectively in the top 100 students in math in US. DD is just as smart but her brain works quite differently. She can read people, grasp the meaning between the lines so much quicker and better than my son and me.

My wife is one of the smartest people I know, even tells me she was strong in math in school, but she just cannot do math the way even I can do.

Gender aside, "following rules" and "analyzing rules" are two very different things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw this and I feel like it is spot on. Girls really like to use the algorithms. They just do. I can completely see it being due to girls being more likely to want rules and being rule followers

I think that's true as far as it goes, but it's not a biological argument. Girls are socialized to be rule followers. So if you change how you teach in response to the information in the article, are you teaching the child in the best way their brain can learn? Or are you just reinforcing the social norm that caused the gender divide in the first place?

I have kids of multiple sexes/genders who follow rules, and have different levels of math interest and ability.

Men are more extreme than women. This appears in all facets of life. This causes both success and failures. It's testosterone. It's been well known for decades.

Anonymous wrote:This is anecdotal, but I've observed that many boys that are excellent in math are only interested in math. They focus on it intensely and exclusively. Whereas I've noticed that many girls who excel in math are also interested in a range of subjects. In our school, girls started out strong in the math competitions, but most stopped competing as more and more time was required for competition math. By graduation, the math boys truly excelled in math and physics. The formerly math girls excelled at everything, but were comparatively far behind the math boys in math (while being ahead of everyone else.) Not sure how much this extrapolates to a larger population.

I'm a PP, and agree. Females tend to be multi-taskers, and have multi-interests. Males are singularly focused.

DS went to an IB magnet school and got straight As, so he has good written and oral communication skills. But he still prefers math, and that has been his sole focus in college as a dual CS/math major. Thanks to all the AP/IB credits, they are graduating in three years and the vast majority of their classes since freshman year has been math and CS, and they prefer it that way.

DD is all over the place with her interests, from hard and soft sciences to the arts.

Anonymous wrote:This is anecdotal, but I've observed that many boys that are excellent in math are only interested in math. They focus on it intensely and exclusively. Whereas I've noticed that many girls who excel in math are also interested in a range of subjects. In our school, girls started out strong in the math competitions, but most stopped competing as more and more time was required for competition math. By graduation, the math boys truly excelled in math and physics. The formerly math girls excelled at everything, but were comparatively far behind the math boys in math (while being ahead of everyone else.) Not sure how much this extrapolates to a larger population.

My kid is a perfect example of your line of thought. Strong math aptitude and engaged in math, math club, etc. up through middle school. Once in HS math was much less of a focal area for her and she dropped all extracurricular math activities. Took math through Calc BC and AP, Stats but she focused on athletics over math, scored a 1560 after her sophomore year and became a recruited athlete at one of the schools everyone fights about on DCUM.

When it was all over she was very good at Math and a whole bunch of other things rather than just math.

Anonymous wrote:I saw this and I feel like it is spot on. Girls really like to use the algorithms. They just do. I can completely see it being due to girls being more likely to want rules and being rule followers

I think that's true as far as it goes, but it's not a biological argument. Girls are socialized to be rule followers. So if you change how you teach in response to the information in the article, are you teaching the child in the best way their brain can learn? Or are you just reinforcing the social norm that caused the gender divide in the first place?

This is anecdotal, but I've observed that many boys that are excellent in math are only interested in math. They focus on it intensely and exclusively. Whereas I've noticed that many girls who excel in math are also interested in a range of subjects. In our school, girls started out strong in the math competitions, but most stopped competing as more and more time was required for competition math. By graduation, the math boys truly excelled in math and physics. The formerly math girls excelled at everything, but were comparatively far behind the math boys in math (while being ahead of everyone else.) Not sure how much this extrapolates to a larger population.

Anonymous wrote:If we're discussing nature vs nurture, the problem is that due to patriarchal beliefs, there are more boys than girls that are pushed into math and the intense extra curricular preparation that comes with the math competition territory.

Therefore, scientifically, you cannot conclude that boy brains are naturally "better" at a certain kind of math reasoning than girl brains. That brains are different by sex has been known for decades... but we still don't understand the ramifications of the physical differences in the real world, because it's very difficult to separate behavior from upbringing.

I'm a woman, and I disagree with your statement. Go to predominantly Asian schools, and you'll see plenty of parents pushing girls into math. Then there's the whole push for Girls in STEM.

Males just think differently than females. It doesn't mean they are smarter, but just different. And this difference makes them stronger in mathy type subjects. Females are great multi-taskers and can see patterns in people and events a lot better than males can, while males have better spatial awareness.

There are articles about such differences, and I see it play out not only with my own kids (boy and girl) but also in the workplace.

Of course, as in all cases, ymmv, and there are plenty of girls who are amazing at math and algortihms (Ada Lovelace says hello), and certainly plenty of men who are terrible at math.

It does help explain some of the disparities in certain fields without imagining that sexism is somehow behind it.

Anonymous wrote:I saw this and I feel like it is spot on. Girls really like to use the algorithms. They just do. I can completely see it being due to girls being more likely to want rules and being rule followers

But aren’t the “alternative strategies” just different algorithms? I was taught the ones they mention in the article as a child (ironically by my mother).

I saw this and I feel like it is spot on. Girls really like to use the algorithms. They just do. I can completely see it being due to girls being more likely to want rules and being rule followers

If we're discussing nature vs nurture, the problem is that due to patriarchal beliefs, there are more boys than girls that are pushed into math and the intense extra curricular preparation that comes with the math competition territory.

Therefore, scientifically, you cannot conclude that boy brains are naturally "better" at a certain kind of math reasoning than girl brains. That brains are different by sex has been known for decades... but we still don't understand the ramifications of the physical differences in the real world, because it's very difficult to separate behavior from upbringing.

The differences become more stark later on in school (at least at the top ends). There are very few female USAMO qualifiers and the cutoffs for qualifying for the Math Olympiad summer camp is actually lower (significantly) for girls. The slavish devotion to the "algorithm" hurts all unconventional thinking and perhaps should be banned.

https://theconversation.com/girls-and-boys-solve-math-problems-differently-with-similar-short-term-results-but-different-long-term-outcomes-269059

“ In a 2016 study of U.S. elementary students, boys outnumbered girls 4 to 1 among the top 1% of scorers on a national math test. And over many decades, boys have been about twice as likely as girls to be among the top scorers on the SAT and AP math exams.

However, girls tend to be more diligent in elementary school and get better grades in math class throughout their schooling. And girls and boys across the grades tend to score similarly on state math tests, which tend to be more aligned with the school curriculum and have more familiar problems than the SAT or other national tests.”