Anonymous wrote:I was screaming when the male therapist author (Joshua Coleman) told that young couple (who went NC with the man's parents because they hated the DIL and were pissed that they got pregnant) that they are showing their DD the example that no contact is an option.

I was like, GOOD!!!! Are you kidding me? What a weird, tone-deaf, not reading the room, absurd thing to say. I never read his book or heard of him before but OP you are probably right that he lacks reflection. My God.

I thought the female therapist sitting next to him seemed irritated by him or maybe that was my hopeful projection.

Overall I enjoyed it. I watched in on youtube. I have seen that hospice nurse before and I really liked hearing from her.

I agree! I am glad Gibson jumped in and reframed it as basically modeling healthy boundaries with people who don't feel emotionally safe. I also totally thought Gibson was annoyed with him. LOVE her. She truly operates with heart and integrity.

That said, I have mixed feelings about that couple now that IG keeps sending me posts from their feed. I truly felt for them and still do, but the stint on Oprah was likely a way to bring people to their balloon business and IG where they partner to advertise products. I admire her entrepreneurial spirit and spunk and he seems lovely, but there's a lot of BS on there. She claims to be so liberal and progressive but her main business harms the environment with forever chemicals and hurts wildlife, and their ads promote consumerism. She posts about protests she doesn't even seem to understand. He complains his parents are performative, yet his social media though charming is highly performative. It's nice to see they don't show their kids' faces and they are a cute couple, but they don't seem as earnest on there as they did on Oprah.

Anonymous wrote:I was screaming when the male therapist author (Joshua Coleman) told that young couple (who went NC with the man's parents because they hated the DIL and were pissed that they got pregnant) that they are showing their DD the example that no contact is an option.

I was like, GOOD!!!! Are you kidding me? What a weird, tone-deaf, not reading the room, absurd thing to say. I never read his book or heard of him before but OP you are probably right that he lacks reflection. My God.

I thought the female therapist sitting next to him seemed irritated by him or maybe that was my hopeful projection.

Overall I enjoyed it. I watched in on youtube. I have seen that hospice nurse before and I really liked hearing from her.

Both Coleman and the mom who has two sons who still talk to her and one daughter estranged were defensive.

Proves the point that sometimes adult children are estranged because parent is not willing to listen and self reflect.

I thought it was a good conversation and the dad who went to therapy provided a great insight as to how to open the door again.

Anonymous wrote:I'm watching it now and it's very good. They do a good job of talking to people from all sides of the issue. I liked the panel of experts too. I'm a big Lindsay Gibson fan and what she said resonated most with me, and I really liked what Nedra Tawwab said as well. I think it was important for Joshua Coleman to be on the panel because he looks at it from the parents' perspective and that matters even when you disagree with the parents.

I actually found the most telling exchange, around the 56/57 minute mark, was when the black father finishes telling his story of reconciling with his daughter, detailing his willingness to go to therapy and openness to the idea that what his daughter was saying about him my gut be true. Gibson talks about how his willingness to self reflect, and openness to see things from his daughter's perspective, is the definition of emotional maturity. I think people don't understand this, that vulnerability and willingness to be wrong is a mark of maturity. It's a really important lesson.

I also liked what Coleman said right after that about how children are different and can respond to the same parenting differently, that some kids may perceive your behavior as a parent more sharply and hard because they are fundamentally more sensitive. I think so often that's how this happens. You have to parent the child you have.

I agree with you about the highlighted part. I think it's self-reflection and then accountability that are crucial. While I agree temperament plays a role, I think he left out golden child scapegoat. Now it may be those roles are chosen based on temperament, but also being the scapegoat can make you pretty anxious and unsteady. I also think Coleman just has a lot more of his own work to do. I am glad he reconciled with his daughter and can enjoy being a grandparent, but it almost arounds like he just played along and learned the lingo,but still makes excuses and doesn't want to be accountable.

I agree with others that therapists are not pushing this. In fact, my therapist lost money when I started distancing. Even though the bad behavior escalated, over time the relief I felt was pure therapy. I didn't need therapy anymore because the relationships I actually chose were healthy.

I saved money on medical issues too and started aging backward a bit.

I think a big issue nobody seems to touch on is the emotional and physical shift from people no longer tolerating abuse. People used to endure abuse and become more depressed and physically sick. Now the shift is put onto the abuser to deal with their own mental health issues rather than dumping. They try to find new people to dump on and suddenly more people see the dark side and retract. So instead of the scapegoat suffering, the now the abuser is suddenly faced with facing the consequences of their actions.

I was screaming when the male therapist author (Joshua Coleman) told that young couple (who went NC with the man's parents because they hated the DIL and were pissed that they got pregnant) that they are showing their DD the example that no contact is an option.

I was like, GOOD!!!! Are you kidding me? What a weird, tone-deaf, not reading the room, absurd thing to say. I never read his book or heard of him before but OP you are probably right that he lacks reflection. My God.

I thought the female therapist sitting next to him seemed irritated by him or maybe that was my hopeful projection.

Overall I enjoyed it. I watched in on youtube. I have seen that hospice nurse before and I really liked hearing from her.

I'm watching it now and it's very good. They do a good job of talking to people from all sides of the issue. I liked the panel of experts too. I'm a big Lindsay Gibson fan and what she said resonated most with me, and I really liked what Nedra Tawwab said as well. I think it was important for Joshua Coleman to be on the panel because he looks at it from the parents' perspective and that matters even when you disagree with the parents.

I actually found the most telling exchange, around the 56/57 minute mark, was when the black father finishes telling his story of reconciling with his daughter, detailing his willingness to go to therapy and openness to the idea that what his daughter was saying about him my gut be true. Gibson talks about how his willingness to self reflect, and openness to see things from his daughter's perspective, is the definition of emotional maturity. I think people don't understand this, that vulnerability and willingness to be wrong is a mark of maturity. It's a really important lesson.

I also liked what Coleman said right after that about how children are different and can respond to the same parenting differently, that some kids may perceive your behavior as a parent more sharply and hard because they are fundamentally more sensitive. I think so often that's how this happens. You have to parent the child you have.

I read an excellent book on this topic and might check out this Oprah show. Thanks for sharing this.

My mother is abusive. After she got dementia, the abuse stopped. Even before that, she was a tiny bit better because her doctor put her on meds for generalized anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder.

But now, my sister has taken up the abuse mantle (actually she was always abusive but I just notice it more now that mother has dementia and seems “normal”) and is untreated, it seems. I can’t take more abuse after years of it so I am very low contact.

After disengaging with my sister, it’s amazing how I don’t need to meet with my therapist as much…

There is less toxicity pouring into me from the sibling, and I am finally healing little by little.

Anonymous wrote:I watched it. I am estranged from my mother as of February, and I should have done it years ago.

The misconceptions out there are astounding. Many parents are blaming therapists. I've not had a therapist to tell me to go NC with my mother.
Many people say, "but, it's your mom," as if that makes abuse and cruelty ok.
Growing up, there was always drama. As I have raised a family of now adults, with my wonderful husband, I realized it is possible for people to treat each other respectfully and with regard, not with constant criticism and passive aggression. That it's possible and necessary to allow people to be who they want to be, not who YOU want them to be, and to celebrate that.

There is a statistic that 30% of Americans are estranged from a family member. I believe it.

It's just very sad.

Its like I could've said the same thing! I cut my mother off when I was in my 20s and it ended up being the best decision. The non stop guilt trips from strangers have definitely been exhausting though. I will say I've noticed a lot of Gen Z have much stricter boundaries then people my age. My daughter sometimes shows me videos of others who are estranged or low contact from their parents and it warms heat a little.

Had no idea Oprah was even still alive, much less doing anything in public.

"Just because you are mother doesn't mean you must be honored regardless of how you treat your kids."

Wow.

I have two experiences with estrangement, which are at different ends of the spectrum so give me sort of a different perspective.

My spouse is largely estranged from his mother. I’ve had some limited experience with her that made me conclude she has a borderline personality. Both he and his brother say she was very emotional abusive to them growing up and feel that she treated their dad very poorly but neither was ever willing to give me details.

Another relative is estranged from his parents. They had a wonderful relationship for most of his life — very close, very supportive, close to ideal. He was the sort of personality that was a huge home body and incredibly close to his parents by choice. Married a woman who was from an insular religion that thinks poorly of his religion of birth (which he was actually really, really into before marrying her). She sort ofi isolated him from his friends and sibling. And then seemed to pick fights with his mom. I think the mom (who is a sensitive type) fell into the trap and let herself be baited and then said some things that weren’t great on a day she was sick and not feeling well. Eventually wife made him choose and he chose wife. It’s horrible and I think has really caused him a lot of psychological damage, as well as basically almost destroying his parents. But I’m sure if you interviewed either him or his wife, they would tell a whole tale about the mother being controlling and emotionally abusive. I think he’s been brainwashed by his wife and her pastor, who basically told him that God wanted him to cut off his parents.

Thanks, OP, I didn't know about this but will definitely check this out. I found Lindsay Gibson's books really life changing so that's enough to get me interested.

I am not estranged from my parents. In fact, I credit Gibsons books with helping me figure out a way to maintain a relationship with them without sacrificing my own mental health or cutting them off entirely. However, my sister *is* estranged from them.

Related to the golden child dynamic OP raises, here's a twist: my sister was absolutely the golden child in our family (4 kids) and I think that's why she wound up going NC. Being a golden child in a dysfunctional family can lead to really bad enmeshment, which is what happened with my sister, and it became very hard for her to start untangling that once she recognized how unhealthy it was. So I think she's gone NC largely because she could not find better ways to set boundaries.

I think it has been easier for me to set boundaries because, as one of four, I was largely ignored as a child and into adulthood. That has had some pretty significant negative impacts on me (thus how I wound up reading multiple books on emotional neglect) but I think it offered a short cut to figuring out to set better emotional boundaries with my family. My parents and I are not close, but they are in my life, we see each other sometimes, and my own child has affectionate feelings towards them (feelings I facilitate by ensuring we don't spend enough time with them for DD to get drawn into their drama).

Anonymous wrote:I watched it. I am estranged from my mother as of February, and I should have done it years ago.

The misconceptions out there are astounding. Many parents are blaming therapists. I've not had a therapist to tell me to go NC with my mother.
Many people say, "but, it's your mom," as if that makes abuse and cruelty ok.
Growing up, there was always drama. As I have raised a family of now adults, with my wonderful husband, I realized it is possible for people to treat each other respectfully and with regard, not with constant criticism and passive aggression. That it's possible and necessary to allow people to be who they want to be, not who YOU want them to be, and to celebrate that.

There is a statistic that 30% of Americans are estranged from a family member. I believe it.

It's just very sad.

This. It's likely the rare therapist who suggest estrangement. It's usually years of therapy and trying strategies until death by a thousand papercuts. None of the adults on there seemed flippant with their choice and it's not a Tiktok trend. Also, it's always been around. That was mentioned, but they made it sound like it haqs skyrocketed. i am not so sure. There were estrangements on both sides of my family as well as people who just moved far enough away nobody bothered them or asked questions.

I hear you about having a good spouse and creating your own family where you realize it is truly possible to be respectful to eachother. We have a calm household with out constant criticism, fighting, aggression and passive aggression despite the fact we both came from chaos. I truly hope we are allowing our kids to be themselves and we work hard to break dysfunctional cycles. I would never want my kids to experience the emotional pain I experienced growing up.

I watched it. I am estranged from my mother as of February, and I should have done it years ago.

The misconceptions out there are astounding. Many parents are blaming therapists. I've not had a therapist to tell me to go NC with my mother.
Many people say, "but, it's your mom," as if that makes abuse and cruelty ok.
Growing up, there was always drama. As I have raised a family of now adults, with my wonderful husband, I realized it is possible for people to treat each other respectfully and with regard, not with constant criticism and passive aggression. That it's possible and necessary to allow people to be who they want to be, not who YOU want them to be, and to celebrate that.

There is a statistic that 30% of Americans are estranged from a family member. I believe it.

It's just very sad.

Thoughts?

I personally thought it was decent, but missed the mark in a few areas. I thought those who shared their stories on both sides were brave. I thought Lindsay Gibson was as empathetic, insightful and incredible as her books and Nedra Tawwab (another favorite author) offered some valuable insights as well. I wasn't a fan of Joshua Coleman, but I also didn't like his book either. I think he had some useful things to say, but lacked enough reflection. I agree that a lot of parents who have challenging relationships with their adult kids had challenging parents themselves, but I think he missed the mark claiming everything is abuse these days. A lot of times, there is multi-generational abuse that gets written off because it wouldn't be worthy of a CPS report back then. They also left out the Golden child scapegoat dynamic. My own mother, the Golden child, talks about how tough her mom was, but because mom was such a good girl she was treated well. She describes behavior toward her siblings that was clearly emotional and verbal abuse with some incidents of physical abuse, but she cannot see it that way because she escaped it just by being
"the good girl." She would say her own behavior is/was not abuse, because if I had been a good girl like my sister I would not have experienced it even though my sister often showed far worse behavior.

My heart went out to the young adults sharing their stories and I will be honest that I related more to them. One mother in particular seemed so defensive and cluessless and she did the classic "my boys think I am a great mother" and trying to portray her daughter terribly. I may post about abusive things my mother does on DCUM, but to anyone who knows her I simply refrain from discussing her. I don't want to tarnish her reputation or make anyone take sides I simply don't have the energy for any more abuse.

Along those lines, I think Gibson nailed it when she said young people are facing so much stress these days though no longer have the energy for the emotional work of trying to work around challenging behaviors and the days are gone where the role usurps the relationships. Just because you are mother doesn't mean you must be honored regardless of how you treat your kids.

I do think Oprah should have mentioned her own history with estrangement for full disclosure, so people understood she was bringing her own stuff there too, but overall it was fine.