OP, I'd drop the plans to have your niece attend.
Her mother is not on board. The end.

OP here - I'll also add that she has now said that she is being demonized by our family and is not coming to Thanksgiving with her children.

I was asked to host everyone at my home several months ago, because it's too hard for my parents to host her and her multiple, boisterous kids & dog. There's no where else we could all fit & as it is, my parents/other sister need to rent a place. It would have been 20 people, so it requires a lot of planning.

I have a playset in my backyard, trails behind my home, I've been working for months on preparing my home (with completing various home projects, getting some extra folding tables, thoughtfully planning out the table setting (trying to keep it cheap, but really pretty), and I've planned out specific family activities that we can all do so it can be a really fun, special time.

I've been working for weeks on finishing painting/organizational/decorative projects entirely myself, so it looks beautiful to host, just to have her do this. She has done this a lot in the past, where if you don't agree with her 100% or if you aren't vocal enough about how much you support her, she flips out, creates a very dramatic scene, and will cut out her family for 6 months, a year....

I think you should pay her per hour that she babysits but a small amount.

I am confused what you mean about "surprising" her with this as a Christmas gift. this is not a gift. this is an offer to be a mother's helper for month. you need to offer this to her and she needs to think about whether she wants to accept. it should not be a Christmas "gift."

1. Pay her for the longer than 30 minute watch periods. If you walk down the street to grab coffee - no payment. Leaving them for four hours while you have dinner and drinks, payment.

2. Bride should have planned better. No need to attend. Send a nice gift.

OP here - thanks! I probably would have offered to pay a small amount for anything more than 30 minutes, but my sister never even tried to have a conversation with me about it. It was "you are this horrible, exploitive aunt, who is taking advantage of my teen" when she knows that I am always trying to do kind things for my nieces/nephews, I treat them to special things when we are out and about (within my ability), and I send them gifts, check-in with them, and I've offered many times to host them at my home (and I have!). It's not like I'm some random person who doesn't have a good relationship with my niece.

She also has a bunch of younger siblings and has been forced to take care of them constantly, and both parents' homes are super chaotic. She doesn't have a lot of friends to hang out with. She's mentioned how much she wants to go on a trip with me. I'm in my 30s and she is a lot like me and loves cozy cafes, bookstores, cute shops, picnics, ect. Her parents have not been able to travel abroad with her, and her mom loves intense, outdoorsy, tent-camping, which most of her kids love, but my niece isn't into it, and so I thought this would be perfect.

I am also super angry with my sister, so I'm sure that is coming off in my post/comments. I think her fiancé is fine. I get along great with him, and I love that his parents have assumed the role of "bonus grandparents" and have been doting on the kids. I don't like how my sister has complained and ranted about how horrible he is, almost daily for a year. I completely understand needing to vent at times, but this was non-stop, and there was always another crisis, and listening/support/venting was almost entirely one-sided. When I've gone through a lot of struggles or our parents are struggling with something, she has basically done nothing to help....she'll listen for 30 seconds and then say, "Well, I've gotta go!". She went from demanding my attention to vent about this for over a year (including when she broke up with him) to rapidly telling us that she is back together and getting married, and I need to now completely flip my plans and make myself 100% available for her....no questions asked. I'm happy to celebrate them, but I question whether she genuinely wants to be in a relationship with him, or if she is trying to use him for childcare and financial stability (he helps her a lot). I suspect that she will ask for money to help pay for the wedding from our parents (who pay for a TON for her and paid for her first wedding, while she treats them like crud when they don't 100% agree with her).

The gentle suggestions about exploring other, more affordable locations have been from immediate family (parents and sisters). I wouldn't normally suggest that to others, but she wants us there and has relied a ton on our parents and to a lesser extent me and our other sister to cover things for her family over the years, so her expecting us to pay a huge amount for our entire family (it would cost me at least 3k) is a lot and she expects us to do this gratefully and not question her on the location, price, anything. Because I said I would be going without my husband and kids, she said that I am not prioritizing her and her wedding.

Question 1: I think that a free trip to Europe with meals & everything else covered is more than enough “compensation” for occasionally babysitting.

Question 2: if at ALL possible, the sibling of the person getting married should attend that wedding. But not necessarily the whole famiy.

On #1 I would let your parents try to smooth this over and let the niece go. Your sister's (I think it's your sister) reaction sounds very knee jerk from a place of jealousy/envy.

On #2 - I'm 100% with you. I think destination weddings where you basically demand people spend a lot of money to show up to your event and party are rude.

If you were my sibling and taking my kid along (bc my kid wanted to go), I would expect my kid to be grateful and do some babysitting for free. But I have a good relationship with my sibling and trust that nothing unreasonable would be requested. It sounds like there is some friction with your sister so this trip may not be a good idea.

No you don't have to go to that wedding- but it also sounds like you're judging those people and don't really like them anyway. Under these circumstances I am not sure why you would attend even if it were convenient.

I got too tired to read the second scenario but the first scenario, yes, you’re bringing her as a mother’s helper and you need to pay her when she babysits. You should have framed it as a fun summer job where she babysat her cousins for 4-8 hours a week while coming along on the trip. But, as a former 16 year old girl, this trip might not be what she wants to do for the summer anyways. At 16, I’d have wanted to be around my friends , not sending a month in a foreign country with elementary aged cousins and my aunt. Not saying it’s not a nice offer, but, framing these things as “why wouldn’t she want this great experience???” Always makes me roll my eyes. Many teen girls won’t want to spend the summer with their aunt and their jet lagged, possibly whiny, younger cousins

When DS was little, my niece spent a good chunk of her summer at our beach house. She had friends visit, we paid for all her food and any activities. But she also helped out with DS and sometimes would watch him solo. Whenever she helped out, even when I was with her, we paid her.

1) I think your mistake was stating the 16yo would help watch the kids. This sort of thing just ends up happening organically, as in just "spending time with cousins" rather than sitting, with a family abroad and an older child. My kids have done that, it's not like anyone asked them, it just happens. If you invite her with the explicit idea of her doing childcare, then yes, she should be paid for that childcare, at a regular sitter rate when watching them.

2) I wouldn't even give it a thought. Can't go, whatever. No patience for wedding drama.

Anonymous wrote:1. I'm generally not a fan of free trips with strings attached. I don't think you mean to come off like this but it's very much a "look at all I'm doing for her! The least she could do is help with the kids!!". Except you're presenting it to her as a gift. Gifts shouldnt come with the expectation that she somehow makes it up to you. I think having her watch the kids while you go for a walk or run to the grocery store or things like that is fine. Date night or things like that? I would pay her.

Now, if I was her mom I would absolutely expect her to help out with the kids unpaid and be thankful for this vacation.

2. No, they shouldn't be expected to cancel plans. It's ok for the bride to be upset but she shouldn't be mean about it. It's definitely overstepping to suggest other places to the bride. Your disdain for the bride is obvious, which is definitely not a good look for you.

agree with this.

If you want her to babysit, pay her for that time. this also keeps it clear when she is actually babysitting (I could see you slipping into taking longer daily walks, etc, bc you assume she is always available to sit). Make it clear and pay her.

The trip is either a gift, or its a job. You want it both ways.

1. I'm generally not a fan of free trips with strings attached. I don't think you mean to come off like this but it's very much a "look at all I'm doing for her! The least she could do is help with the kids!!". Except you're presenting it to her as a gift. Gifts shouldnt come with the expectation that she somehow makes it up to you. I think having her watch the kids while you go for a walk or run to the grocery store or things like that is fine. Date night or things like that? I would pay her.

Now, if I was her mom I would absolutely expect her to help out with the kids unpaid and be thankful for this vacation.

2. No, they shouldn't be expected to cancel plans. It's ok for the bride to be upset but she shouldn't be mean about it. It's definitely overstepping to suggest other places to the bride. Your disdain for the bride is obvious, which is definitely not a good look for you.

Wow. This is a doozy. I would just comment that it’s so sad children would travel across an ocean and play on a tablet during downtime.

A.I.T.A - adult sibling edition; 2-part question.

1) Is it unreasonable to invite your 16-year-old niece to go with you and your two kids (rising 3rd & 6th grade) to Europe for a month, where you would rent an apartment/cottage and do a slow-travel trip (exploring the area and doing day trips). Your parents/her grandparents have offered to pay for her 2 flights needed (1 small flight to the main airport where you will fly out with the kids and then the overnight flight to Europe). You are renting an apartment that is big enough for at least 4 people (possibly more) and your husband will be joining you for the last 8-10 days of the trip, so for a big portion of it, it would be just you and the three kids. You will pay for food, museums, & travel expenses for your niece (and will probably treat her to some other little things during the trip, like maybe some matching shirts or jewelry, ect). She would help watch your kids occasionally for short periods of time at your rental (maybe 30 minutes while they watch tv/play on tablets so you can take a solo walk, maybe one morning or afternoon alone, and one evening while you go out for dinner with your husband to celebrate your anniversary). Beyond that, she would be included in activities and also given some free time to explore the town (with an apple tag and cell phone on her as a requirement, but we’d be staying in a smaller, super safe town). Depending on where we land with location, I have friends with some teens who she could possibly hang out with or there could be some cool teen/youth activities she could sign up for.

Is it unreasonable to NOT offer to pay her in ADDITION to bringing her along on a free trip and covering her general expenses while there? She would NOT be babysitting daily or anything like that. There wasn’t even a full discussion about what would be fully included/not included, the mother immediately shut it down and made it seem like the aunt is trying to exploit her niece and just wants a cheap babysitter, not to invite her niece along to have a wonderful experience, ect.
I imagine that her grandparents (my parents) would gift her with some extra spending money (especially if she keeps up her grades and makes honor roll) and I imagine other relatives would gift her some money to have on her trip. It would be her 1st trip to Europe and she’s been wanting to go with me on a trip for a long time. I am NOT wealthy and would NOT be able to afford to pay for her airfare and then her daily expenses and then pay her. I am renting an airbnb, where we can get a great deal and we would be making our own simple meals much of the time, but would go out for gelato, probably a pastry/cold drink/coffee, ect. And a occasional other meals out.
This past summer, my niece did nothing all summer long (she did not go on vacation with her mom/siblings as they were tent-camping for a long road-trip and she wasn’t into that) and she hasn’t gotten a ton of great opportunities due to a variety of reasons, so me, my parents, and another sibling thought this would be a terrific opportunity. I have done A LOT to help out this sibling in the past and do a lot to really try and love and care for her kids; make sure that they know their aunt loves them.

My sister was very upset with me for not offering to pay her in addition to covering everything else and our parents covering her flights. She was upset that I had mentioned that it would be wonderful to surprise her with this gift at christmas, and if she wants to babysit around her neighborhood to earn extra spending money, she would have plenty of time to do so. (my sister would not have to pay for her daughter’s living expenses that entire month….).

2) Is it reasonable for someone to expect that their adult siblings+spouses+children would rearrange and cancel ANY plans they had previously made, regardless of how long-standing those plans were, to attend her 2nd wedding? She has multiple children from her 1st marriage, has relied on her parents for financial support for many years & continues to rely on them, and while she has been in a relationship with her fiance for over 3 years, she complained about him almost daily for a solid year before dumping him in May, being extremely hateful to him, and then getting back together with him in August and then announcing in early October that they are getting married….so it’s only been a couple of months since they’ve been back together.

They have planned a destination wedding across the country (in a location far from where any other family lives and requires you to fly), pay for a car rental, lodging, food, ect.?

Is it hateful of the sibling to say that they will NOT cancel their long-standing vacation plans, and because they cannot afford to do their long-standing family vacation AND the wedding, the sibling will attend the wedding solo, leaving their spouse & kids at home in order to save money? When several family members suggested they explore some beautiful locations within driving distance of home (that have also been special places to them) and would be much more affordable for everyone, the bride-to-be yelled at her family and said the decision was done, how dare you suggest that, ect.