Anonymous wrote:A couple of things. It isn’t a dump if the family picked him up.

The family needs to cast a wider net when looking for a facility. It is going to be a nightmare to find a facility to take him now that he has a record of going into vulnerable people’s rooms in an agitated state during the night and add to that the violence toward staff with two not being able to contain him. This will all be disclosed to anywhere you consider.

An ER is an option but it’s not the panacea that PP makes it sound. A placement isn’t going to magically appear because he’s in the ER. If they have to keep him, the care will suck. He won’t get a hospital room - he’ll be stick in an ER bed, which depending on the facility is just a bed behind a curtain with irregular meals and no routine. His confusion will go off the wall and if he gets agitated he could be restrained and medicated with heavy duty psych meds and could end up involuntarily committed in a psych placement. Plus someone has to pay for that so if there is money it might be better spent in other ways.

An attorney and adult protective services are good resources.

Last thing. You are rather dismissive of the staffs’ injuries. Your FIL sent a staff member to the ER. That’s serious and it’s pretty shocking that your reaction doesn’t recognize that he hurt someone and those injuries could have long term affects.

Apologies if it seemed that way—just providing context in case the nursing home could have been overstating the seriousness of the situation to bully my sibling-in-law.

What meds is he on? He might need different ones

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nursing home did the right thing as it has a duty to protect its patients/residents and workers from violence.

No they didn't. That was just the easiest thing for them. They needed to find an alternative placement. He can't be home. That's not safe for him or his family.

Imagine your loved one in a nursing home, and a violent person wanders into your loved one's room, in the middle of the night. When staff tries to protect your loved one by removing the violent man, he assaults them, sending one to the ER.

Would you be ok with this violent person remaining in the same facility as your loved one?

Anonymous wrote:The nursing home did the right thing as it has a duty to protect its patients/residents and workers from violence.

No they didn't. That was just the easiest thing for them. They needed to find an alternative placement. He can't be home. That's not safe for him or his family.

Yeah, I hate to say it but if he’s really unsafe at home I think you go to the ER and you strategize from there. Bring all of your paperwork and ask to speak to a hospital social worker. It’s not a good use of the ER but that’s the system we have.

The nursing home did the right thing as it has a duty to protect its patients/residents and workers from violence.

Anonymous wrote:Use checking for a UTI as an excuse for the ER visit. He very well could have one. It's quite common in older men and symptoms can include confusion and violence. The symptoms alone can often be diagnosed as dementia, he has it, but it certainly makes it worse.

And honestly it's time to look at what medications he's taking and why. His life is only going to get harder and worse.

Let’s be honest he’s not living. He’s surviving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mistake was actually picking him up from the nursing home. If you had refused to pick him up they would have found another place.

This

I mean…I get it. But it’s where we are. Can’t turn back time.

Anonymous wrote:The mistake was actually picking him up from the nursing home. If you had refused to pick him up they would have found another place.

This

A couple of things. It isn’t a dump if the family picked him up.

The family needs to cast a wider net when looking for a facility. It is going to be a nightmare to find a facility to take him now that he has a record of going into vulnerable people’s rooms in an agitated state during the night and add to that the violence toward staff with two not being able to contain him. This will all be disclosed to anywhere you consider.

An ER is an option but it’s not the panacea that PP makes it sound. A placement isn’t going to magically appear because he’s in the ER. If they have to keep him, the care will suck. He won’t get a hospital room - he’ll be stick in an ER bed, which depending on the facility is just a bed behind a curtain with irregular meals and no routine. His confusion will go off the wall and if he gets agitated he could be restrained and medicated with heavy duty psych meds and could end up involuntarily committed in a psych placement. Plus someone has to pay for that so if there is money it might be better spent in other ways.

An attorney and adult protective services are good resources.

Last thing. You are rather dismissive of the staffs’ injuries. Your FIL sent a staff member to the ER. That’s serious and it’s pretty shocking that your reaction doesn’t recognize that he hurt someone and those injuries could have long term affects.

Use checking for a UTI as an excuse for the ER visit. He very well could have one. It's quite common in older men and symptoms can include confusion and violence. The symptoms alone can often be diagnosed as dementia, he has it, but it certainly makes it worse.

And honestly it's time to look at what medications he's taking and why. His life is only going to get harder and worse.

Anonymous wrote:The mistake was actually picking him up from the nursing home. If you had refused to pick him up they would have found another place.

Unfortunately the sibling who was there didn’t call anyone until it was done. They may have panicked and thought they had no other options, but it took me a 30 second google search to see they can’t just kick you out. My suggestion was the ER also like the next PP. My SO is dropping everything and going there tomorrow because it’s obviously too much for the younger sibling to manage on their own. - OP

They need to take him to ER for whatever and refuse to pick him up on the basis of not being able to provide the level of care he needs. They’ll face a lot of pressure and guilt tripping but that’s the only way unfortunately

The mistake was actually picking him up from the nursing home. If you had refused to pick him up they would have found another place.

FIL has fairly advanced dementia. Still verbal but always confused and doesn’t know anyone anymore. Frequently agitated. He was in a rehab/nursing facility that had been facilitating his transfer to another nursing home, but that has not happened yet for reasons I don’t know. His medical needs seem to be too advanced for most memory care facilities in his area, as far as we have seen. He is on several waitlists at other nursing homes.

He woke up in the middle of the night (regular occurrence), got confused, and grew violent after wandering into another patient’s room thinking it was his, after staff tried to reorient him to his room. He ended up knocking down two of the staff, one of whom apparently went to the ER (which is likely the small, rural 24/7 ambulatory care place next door not a trauma center!). The next day, the nursing home called one of his local children to take him home. No notice, just, come pick him up. And now apparently the other facility won’t take him either….. They have been trying for months to find a suitable place for him as he cannot be cared for at home anymore. His youngest child has been caring for him but is in well over his head. They are now in crisis management mode, again, after thinking they had found a safe place for him.

Medication management is clearly a challenge and may be a contributing factor. No memory patient safety measures in the facility exist. But how can a nursing home just basically dump a patient on the street?

I’m calling the local ombudsman tomorrow to see if they can help, at my SO’s request, but this is crazy, right? What recourse or path forward does the family have? An elder care attorney is already involved.