My take is that public school used to be about indoctrination (civics, ethics/morality, family values, respect, order) along with providing supervision for children and an acceptable baseline of education (reading, writing, ‘rithmetic).

I’m not so sure what public school is for now. Childcare and some basic level (maybe) of socialization?

Anonymous wrote:Schools have been chasing fad curricula since textbooks existed. My Aunt has been in education for 60 years and can list each decade's fad.

I would love to see this list.

I promise I do not get out my tinfoil hat for many topics, but this is one of them. The "social purpose" of school is different from what teachers are trying to do, which is part of why being a teacher is so hard.

If the purpose of a system is what it does, then school is for these things:
- Childcare for working families so kids are off the street, but not too much childcare because then we'd have more fully employed women;
- Training in basic reading and arithmetic for future mid-level workers, but not too much academics or anything that isn't "useful" by the standards of the time; this is also why screens are so popular and spelling tests aren't.
- Delivery system for safety net needs / incentive for regular medical care / check-in system to make sure kids aren't being neglected.

That's not what most parents want for their kids, but it's somehow all they are willing to support or fund for other people's kids, so that's what we make available. If you want more, you have to supplement or go private.

The purpose of school is to further the goal of racial equity of outcomes in academics.

Which schools are near you OP? Algebra in 6th was new this year and was only for children were “invited” and passed SOLs with a pass advanced.

As far as spelling is concerned, my 6th grader received spelling and phonics instruction from the moment he stepped into FCPS. He is also getting grammar lessons. Science in elementary was a series of filmstrips with fill in the blank sentences when I was a kid so it can’t go downhill more than that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

OP. Thanks for the reply.

Where I was living when I grew up, most kids went to college. What I see (and colleagues confirm this in their kids schools) today in APS and FCPS is kids receiving less academics in elementary than I had. Spelling and science and grammar and writing an essay are each examples where content has been heavily watered down now. Reading scores are down nationwide (and even were going down pre-pandemic, sonthat is not the cause) according to NAEP. "Intro Algebra", which now is renamed "Algebra 1", starting in 8th grade is what most kids had when and where I grew up.

Someone or some group might be pushing for Algebra in 6th, but it is not (yet) actually happening in the schools near me.

Algebra in 6th is happening all over FCPS in elementary schools. I took enough APs to enter college as a sophomore and took algebra 1 in 7th grade along with 10 other kids out of my middle school. My kid’s middle school has TONS of kids taking algebra in 7th. I had to take a year off of math in high school because they didn’t offer a high enough math as we only went up to AP calc AB. Kids have more offerings in math and can go higher. They also have a wider variety of APs and can start taking APs freshman year.

I didn’t write 5 paragraphs until 5th grade and my kids were starting in 3rd. I am just not seeing the ‘degradation” of academics you are. Maybe you are not seeing what happens after elementary and so are getting frustrated? I was upset my kids didn’t have spelling homework, but they have been fine and learned it anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

OP. Thanks for the reply.

Where I was living when I grew up, most kids went to college. What I see (and colleagues confirm this in their kids schools) today in APS and FCPS is kids receiving less academics in elementary than I had. Spelling and science and grammar and writing an essay are each examples where content has been heavily watered down now. Reading scores are down nationwide (and even were going down pre-pandemic, sonthat is not the cause) according to NAEP. "Intro Algebra", which now is renamed "Algebra 1", starting in 8th grade is what most kids had when and where I grew up.

Someone or some group might be pushing for Algebra in 6th, but it is not (yet) actually happening in the schools near me.

This has been happening for at least one generation prior because so many teachers are poor at English, especially in grammar and vocabulary. A lot of history teachers don't know much beyond the covered material and I've been told they make things up if they don't know the answer.

Anonymous wrote:Schools have been chasing fad curricula since textbooks existed. My Aunt has been in education for 60 years and can list each decade's fad.

OP. This is totally believable. I was a victim of the "new math" of my era, which foisted an untested "new" approach that had no sound pedagogical basis on my generation of kids.

Anonymous wrote:When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

OP. Thanks for the reply.

Where I was living when I grew up, most kids went to college. What I see (and colleagues confirm this in their kids schools) today in APS and FCPS is kids receiving less academics in elementary than I had. Spelling and science and grammar and writing an essay are each examples where content has been heavily watered down now. Reading scores are down nationwide (and even were going down pre-pandemic, sonthat is not the cause) according to NAEP. "Intro Algebra", which now is renamed "Algebra 1", starting in 8th grade is what most kids had when and where I grew up.

Someone or some group might be pushing for Algebra in 6th, but it is not (yet) actually happening in the schools near me.

^social as in making relationships work and how to manage them

For me it's about sociability. The ability and education of mixing in, how to make friends, run. It's not permanent but it's a start esp for those who are looking at future goals - a time to practice.

In our times, college via academics is only one path offering career opportunities. There's so many options from building it yourself, leveraging online/social media, trades, etc. people need to get out of the one dimensional outlook of college as the end all and be all of any chance to make a good living.

If ever there was a time for imaginative career options, it's the present!

So for me as a parent, I'm measuring different things for my kid. It's not about getting the A as it is about how they fare in school socially. Are they able to follow through and organize. Academically, I want to see where their interests align with their best subjects - if they love science and aren't doing well, that's a flag. If they hate math and don't do that badly in it that also is insightful. I'm learning about their abilities and nature and helping them leverage all if that into a focus that they can be successful at doing all day every day because not enjoying what you do and work for work sake sucks. Nobody is really good at what they hate and don't want to do!

I think as parents, people need to get with the times and understand that opportunities to make a living are everywhere - school is not the only way to be educated.

Schools have been chasing fad curricula since textbooks existed. My Aunt has been in education for 60 years and can list each decade's fad.

Anonymous wrote:When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

Parents use tutors because school districts chase the latest fad curriculum and because society does not value education, most teachers today are the bottom of the heap.

Today’s K-12 administrators are almost singularly focused on social justice issues.

When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

Back in the day, school seemed focused on academics. Now it seems like school is focused on anything except academics. Parents across the country supplement with their kids outside school - in many or all subjects - not just for math.

I am realizing the main current benefit of elementary school for our DC is just socialization.

What happened?