Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a government worker in my 40's (non-lawyer).

There's nothing wrong with living a "minimalist" lifestyle, if that's what you prefer. Up until last year, I was renting a small 1BR apartment. Living a basic lifestyle allowed me to save $1.5M in my retirement accounts and buy a $500K 2BR condo last year with cash.

Assuming that you have paid off your law school loans and have a substantial net worth, it's time to consider what your legacy will be. You probably have the financial means to support a few causes at this point. I have substantially increased my own giving in the past few years as I have reached financial independence.

Also, there may be a few small luxuries that you want to buy. For me, I spend a premium on electronics, running shoes, Chick-fil-A, and travel.

I have to know…how do you spend a premium on chick-fil-A? How often are you eating it?

Hopefully, he/she meant buying Chick-Fil-A franchises.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a partner. Sure lots of partners have a lot of the things on your list. But that has less to do with them having a certain “culture” and more to do with having money. If you did a poll of 100 adults making over $2m a year, I suspect many of them would have multiple homes and luxury cars, etc. Also, a lot of the things on your list genuinely make life a lot easier when you’re married and with kids, so I don’t think they reflect “culture” so much as “if you can afford it, why wouldn’t you?”. Having more space in a neighborhood with good schools? Almost everyone with kids wants that, it’s just a lot of ppl can’t afford it. Frankly, a Mercedes drives better than a Corolla, so if you’re working 70 hours a week why wouldn’t you prefer to drive home in that car at midnight?

At the same time, lots of biglaw partners aren’t into expensive stuff. I’m in a $1m house with my husband and kid, but we do have midrange luxury cars ($65k Audis). We have a beach place that my parents bought a long time ago. But we’re not golfers or into wine or other rich guy stuff. Our kid goes to public school and we live pretty regular lives day to day. Lots of my partners are the same - in two bedrooms in manhattan with their kids, no cars, members at the Y. Most of us aren’t members of country clubs.

Point being, culture and fit into this expensive luxury world has little bearing on your ability to make partner. All they will care about is if you do good work, have good potential with client relations, and if they like you generally.

But with all that said…. I’m going to go out on a limb and say you have a different culture fit issue. Specifically, you sound immature, judgmental and inexperienced. It’s weird that you are brushing all your hundreds of partners with the same broad strokes, when I’m sure there’s a lot of diversity of personality and interests among them. I think you’re also silly to not recognize that if you have kids, a lot do the things you list have nothing to do with culture and more to do with the realities of kids. The immaturity and judgement you’re exhibiting is a personality trait that’s going to make it tough for you to gel well with your partners. They don’t care if you’re a member of a club or drive a g-wagon. But they do care if you’re irritating, and that alone will stop you from getting promoted.

Perhaps I’m a tad immature, inexperienced and judgmental I’m not so sure. Don’t harbor any ill will towards those that desire to live such a way it’s just not for me and I want to confirm not living such a way would not hurt my career as long as it’s generally kept to myself. I don’t doubt owning a nice home in a safe neighborhood > good schools and so on for kids at all just with me not having any it doesn’t seem like I would need that much space/good schools. Same for the car, the honda gets me where I need to go and is comfortable enough so don’t feel the desire to spend money on a nicer vehicle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on your OP if you don’t make partner it will be for being too aspie, which caused you to make a post like this, vs the way you live. I’ve been practicing law over a decade and for 90% of my colleagues, I have no idea what their living situation is like. They could all live in shoebox studios for all I know.

I was thinking that, but I don't know. My husband and son are Aspie. They wouldn't think of asking a question like this. I almost feel like this thread is aspirational and there's no way OP is close to making partner. Whatever the reason for OP's aggressive frugality, it certainly grates on posters on DCUM, so it will grate on OP's colleagues in real life. Bottom line, how much better is your work compared to someone who is more normal?

A lot of aspie people, in my experience, catalogue the choices of the people around them like OP is doing and then compare to their choices. A sort of informed masking.

Anonymous wrote:Based on your OP if you don’t make partner it will be for being too aspie, which caused you to make a post like this, vs the way you live. I’ve been practicing law over a decade and for 90% of my colleagues, I have no idea what their living situation is like. They could all live in shoebox studios for all I know.

I was thinking that, but I don't know. My husband and son are Aspie. They wouldn't think of asking a question like this. I almost feel like this thread is aspirational and there's no way OP is close to making partner. Whatever the reason for OP's aggressive frugality, it certainly grates on posters on DCUM, so it will grate on OP's colleagues in real life. Bottom line, how much better is your work compared to someone who is more normal?

if you are in a position to make partner, i assume you have some money already. it wouldn't hurt to upgrade your wardrobe and car.

Based on your OP if you don’t make partner it will be for being too aspie, which caused you to make a post like this, vs the way you live. I’ve been practicing law over a decade and for 90% of my colleagues, I have no idea what their living situation is like. They could all live in shoebox studios for all I know.

OP here. Will be 35 this year. I do not have any debt and have paid off all loans. Planning on leaving excess funds to my nieces/nephews as I have multiple siblings with multiple kids.

Encouraging to hear that as long as I can “talk the talk” so to speak I should be good. I’m willing to spend a few minutes each week to learn what’s going on in football for that week or something and can focus on asking questions rather than sharing my own opinions (which I won’t really have).

The appearing prosperous part might be a bit more difficult. I tailor/repair my own clothes so they fit well and are clean and pressed but they are not brand name really, mostly whatever I find second hand or at thrift stores other than suits. Generally I try not to appear like I have money but if I need to get my car detailed and make sure everything is neat and tidy that is fine as long as it doesn’t require purchasing or leasing newer vehicles or anything like that.

I’m a partner. Sure lots of partners have a lot of the things on your list. But that has less to do with them having a certain “culture” and more to do with having money. If you did a poll of 100 adults making over $2m a year, I suspect many of them would have multiple homes and luxury cars, etc. Also, a lot of the things on your list genuinely make life a lot easier when you’re married and with kids, so I don’t think they reflect “culture” so much as “if you can afford it, why wouldn’t you?”. Having more space in a neighborhood with good schools? Almost everyone with kids wants that, it’s just a lot of ppl can’t afford it. Frankly, a Mercedes drives better than a Corolla, so if you’re working 70 hours a week why wouldn’t you prefer to drive home in that car at midnight?

At the same time, lots of biglaw partners aren’t into expensive stuff. I’m in a $1m house with my husband and kid, but we do have midrange luxury cars ($65k Audis). We have a beach place that my parents bought a long time ago. But we’re not golfers or into wine or other rich guy stuff. Our kid goes to public school and we live pretty regular lives day to day. Lots of my partners are the same - in two bedrooms in manhattan with their kids, no cars, members at the Y. Most of us aren’t members of country clubs.

Point being, culture and fit into this expensive luxury world has little bearing on your ability to make partner. All they will care about is if you do good work, have good potential with client relations, and if they like you generally.

But with all that said…. I’m going to go out on a limb and say you have a different culture fit issue. Specifically, you sound immature, judgmental and inexperienced. It’s weird that you are brushing all your hundreds of partners with the same broad strokes, when I’m sure there’s a lot of diversity of personality and interests among them. I think you’re also silly to not recognize that if you have kids, a lot do the things you list have nothing to do with culture and more to do with the realities of kids. The immaturity and judgement you’re exhibiting is a personality trait that’s going to make it tough for you to gel well with your partners. They don’t care if you’re a member of a club or drive a g-wagon. But they do care if you’re irritating, and that alone will stop you from getting promoted.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a government worker in my 40's (non-lawyer).

There's nothing wrong with living a "minimalist" lifestyle, if that's what you prefer. Up until last year, I was renting a small 1BR apartment. Living a basic lifestyle allowed me to save $1.5M in my retirement accounts and buy a $500K 2BR condo last year with cash.

Assuming that you have paid off your law school loans and have a substantial net worth, it's time to consider what your legacy will be. You probably have the financial means to support a few causes at this point. I have substantially increased my own giving in the past few years as I have reached financial independence.

Also, there may be a few small luxuries that you want to buy. For me, I spend a premium on electronics, running shoes, Chick-fil-A, and travel.

I have to know…how do you spend a premium on chick-fil-A? How often are you eating it?

I'm a government worker in my 40's (non-lawyer).

There's nothing wrong with living a "minimalist" lifestyle, if that's what you prefer. Up until last year, I was renting a small 1BR apartment. Living a basic lifestyle allowed me to save $1.5M in my retirement accounts and buy a $500K 2BR condo last year with cash.

Assuming that you have paid off your law school loans and have a substantial net worth, it's time to consider what your legacy will be. You probably have the financial means to support a few causes at this point. I have substantially increased my own giving in the past few years as I have reached financial independence.

Also, there may be a few small luxuries that you want to buy. For me, I spend a premium on electronics, running shoes, Chick-fil-A, and travel.

Not a partner or married to one, so take my view with a grain of salt.

In all the professions where networking and client contact is of paramount importance, your private life doesn't matter. What matters is whether you can socialize with your network where they are. So if your group builds their client list on the golf links, sorry, you're going to have to learn your way around a golf course. If your group does a variety of things a la Family Money, "I learned sailing and polo while growing up", you're going to have to catch up. I don't mean you need to be good at all those things. But you need to learn the lingo, and at least pretend to know what to do if you're invited to wherever it is. Just like you need to know the basics of wine and various cuisines. The perception should be that you belong to a high social class and have the requisite background knowledge, even though you may choose not to partake in your daily life.

Your team values your intelligence and hard work, obviously, and they couldn't care less what you do when you're not needed. But if there are client meetings and related political schmoozing events and you're the only person who doesn't know what everyone else is talking about... this is going to be a problem.

In terms of personal appearance, you need to appear prosperous. An impeccable exterior is required: clothes, grooming, car, etc. You don't need jewelry or accessories. You can be as minimalist as you want! But anything that's visible needs to look high-caliber. No one wants a poor lawyer...

You sound boring if your only hobby/interest is going to the gym.

OP, I have to ask - how old are you? Especially if you are under 30 a LOT of the things on your personal description list are very likely to change over time.

I’m married to a big law counsel who has yet to make partner and we have most of those things. I think it’s more about personality. My DH is introverted and not a go-getter. Apparently, he does great work but he doesn’t know how to network or make small talk or be a bro and therefore hasn’t brought in any business nor gotten to know anyone beyond his practice group. But maybe an actual lawyer could chime in.

I'm sure this differs across firms/practices somewhat, but at least for the current/retired BIGLAW firm partners that are on this forum, how important is "lifestyle" or "culture" fit when attempting to make partner at your firm, if at all? I ask because the partners in my group, and generally at my firm, tend to have several things in common when it comes to their lives/culture/lifestyle that do not appeal to me and I'm wondering if that would be an impediment to my advancement. I plan on asking a very close partner that has been willing to answer my questions off the record as well but I wanted to get an idea of how, if at all, other firms consider these aspects.

Current firm partner commonalities:

1. Multiple homes - Tend to own a home in the market where our office is, in addition to at least one other home in a vacation destination. Also, if they have kids of college age, may own a home for their kids to stay in while in college/grad school.
2. Country club membership - Tend to be a member of a country club and take the family there for activities/brunch/events/etc as well as playing golf or tennis.
3. Luxury items - Tend to own a number of luxury items, including cars, jewelry, clothing, etc. Likely to have multiple watches they rotate among during the week.
4. Children - Tend to have multiple kids, ranging from 2 - 6 kids.
5. Hobbies - Aforementioned golf and tennis, but also tend to ski, play pickleball, extensive travel, attend sporting events, etc.

Personal differences:

1. Studio apartment - Currently living in the same studio apartment I rented in law school. I do a yearly review of my belongings to make sure everything I own can fit in my car if I needed to leave promptly. No plans to buy a SFH but I would consider buying a small 1BR condo if it made sense. Want to continue being able to fit all belongings in car.
2. Gym membership - Belong to multiple gyms in my city, but still far below the cost of country club membership. Don't play golf or tennis and no plans to take them up. Do not play sports in general, just exercise 1x-3x daily.
3. No luxury items - I do not purchase or own luxury items and do not wear jewelry. Cars are econoboxes that I drive for as long as possible. Currently driving a 2010 Honda Accord with 80k miles that I hope will be the last or second to last car needed prior to retirement.
4. Children/spouse: No kids and no plans for kids or a spouse. Tried dating early after law school and did not work out at all so focusing on career/fitness.
5. Hobbies: Just the 1-3x daily workouts, watching tv, video games, things along those lines. Don't follow/watch any sports, travel or leave my bubble too much. Make all my meals at home unless the firm is providing free food then I may have something from there. Don't drink alcohol or use any drugs other than caffeine.

All that being said, I'm a very hard worker. Other than my first year Ive tended to bill between 2200 - 2600 hours each year and have always gotten a bonus. There is a certain line of work that I am staffed on in my office that 100% comes to me with minimal supervision by the partners and that they have not bothered to become "up to date" on how it currently works so with 2 partners planning on retiring in the next year, all signs are pointing towards me making partner unless any of the above/something else were to stand in the way.

TL;DR - I live a very minimalist/"small" lifestyle in comparison to partners at my firm. Any chance this will prevent me from making partner or would nobody care as long as I'm bringing in work/doing the work at a high level?