Anonymous wrote:My kid is one of the stronger students in Spanish 4. I think they’d place in A2. But this year should have much more focus on speaking so maybe B1 by end of year? I’m just guessing. I’d love to hear from a language teacher.

Isn't A2 an advanced beginner level? Wouldn't Spanish 4 be B1 at a minimum?

Anonymous wrote:OP, an average MCPS grad A student who finished AP (level 5) could not do any of the things you mentioned. They can fight their way through a few paragraphs of text or a paragraph of audio with written text support.

I thought AP was Spanish 6.

My kid is one of the stronger students in Spanish 4. I think they’d place in A2. But this year should have much more focus on speaking so maybe B1 by end of year? I’m just guessing. I’d love to hear from a language teacher.

Anonymous wrote:Classroom foreign language skills have little to do with real world foreign language skills. My teen DD just started Spanish 5. She cannot follow rapid-fire Spanish news on TV or hold a conversation with a native speaker. She doesn't have enough vocabulary and fluency.

But she can read some texts, while more or less correctly guessing at the words she doesn't actually know, and write grammatically correct sentences within the narrow limits of what she does know.

She's always had straight As in all her Spanish classes and she is bilingual in French, which I think helps her Spanish a little bit.

This sounds right for an American high school student who has gotten good grades but has had no experience with non-academic language use (e.g., no significant travel or study abroad).

I was about at this level in French after 5 years of study (non-AP). I minored in French in college. By the end of that, my accent was improved, I understood more sophisticated and literary grammar structures but did not independently use them on the fly, I could watch movies with subtitling and listen some while also reading, and I could write longer paragraphs on short-answer essay questions.

Due to lack of overseas experience, I could only hold simple conversations but people liked hearing my accent. There was always a lot of vocabulary that would leave me stumped. For example, I couldn't figure out what menu expression meant "Happy Meal" in Francophone Canada. But I could slowly read a 19th century novel.

My kid in non-DMV school took 4 years of high-school Spanish ending in DP Spanish SL. He also had about 1 year of it in middle school and scattered "specials" work in elementary school. He struggled in Spanish 4 in his first semester at his selective flagship, receiving a C+ that is his worst grade to date. His classes in high school were conversation-oriented and did not focus carefully on grammar and correct spelling. But he still got As for being towards the top of his classes.

Classroom foreign language skills have little to do with real world foreign language skills. My teen DD just started Spanish 5. She cannot follow rapid-fire Spanish news on TV or hold a conversation with a native speaker. She doesn't have enough vocabulary and fluency.

But she can read some texts, while more or less correctly guessing at the words she doesn't actually know, and write grammatically correct sentences within the narrow limits of what she does know.

She's always had straight As in all her Spanish classes and she is bilingual in French, which I think helps her Spanish a little bit.

Anonymous wrote:What is the point of this post. It is impossible to answer.

As far as what kids are able to do after each level, I know there is no one definitive answer to this-- just wondering about your observations of what your kids and/or other kids you know were able to do after each level. Totally understand it will be anecdotal.

But I would certainly hope there is indeed a definitive answer across the county about what's covered at each level, and what's expected to be mastered before moving to the next level... I know that in practice some teachers will be different than others, but surely there are certain things that are *supposed* to be covered in each level regardless of school/teacher?

Anonymous wrote:What is the point of this post. It is impossible to answer.

And depends a lot on teacher. Some are old and no longer effective in teaching (should have retired years ago -- teacher shortage), have issues outside their job &. bring those issues into class everyday and how they deal with students to the detriment of student's mental health which affects student performance, are racists, are lenient graders because they don't want to hear from parents, are harsh graders but don't actually teach the material. Basically, don't wait on them to give your kid what they need to learn. Tutor yourself if you can, you tube it, hire a tutor, enroll in weekend language course, online course etc...all the best in MD largest's school district.

OP, an average MCPS grad A student who finished AP (level 5) could not do any of the things you mentioned. They can fight their way through a few paragraphs of text or a paragraph of audio with written text support.

It's detailed here, https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/about/Documents/DCAA/World-Languages/MDWorldReadinessStandardsLearningLanguages.pdf

but the paperwork vastly overstated the actual student skills. The schools teach to a worksheet based proficiency. They are graded for irrelevant precision on the topic of the week, not functional language production and understanding. Students at MCPS level 3 and 4 still can't intuitively produce a coherent paragraph on a topic of interest, even in broken language.

What is the point of this post. It is impossible to answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post looks like an offshoot of the other one. By 4, your kid would be in good shape if they can read books and watch Spanish media with complete understanding, and be able to have an easy back and forth conversation with a native speaker.

I'm not the OP of that post, if that's what you mean.

Just to clarify, are you saying this is what kids are able to do coming out of Spanish 4? Or going into Spanish 4/coming out of Spanish 3?

No, what I meant was that it looked like you read that thread and created this new one as an offshoot. Just noting.

It’s best to have that level of fluency, or close to it, going into 4. That’s why 4 has the reputation of being a gpa killer.

Anonymous wrote:This post looks like an offshoot of the other one. By 4, your kid would be in good shape if they can read books and watch Spanish media with complete understanding, and be able to have an easy back and forth conversation with a native speaker.

I'm not the OP of that post, if that's what you mean.

Just to clarify, are you saying this is what kids are able to do coming out of Spanish 4? Or going into Spanish 4/coming out of Spanish 3?

This post looks like an offshoot of the other one. By 4, your kid would be in good shape if they can read books and watch Spanish media with complete understanding, and be able to have an easy back and forth conversation with a native speaker.

After Spanish 2, my FL teacher said someone doing well in the class is Novice High or Intermediate Low.

I can't find this written up anywhere (please point me to it if it exists!)-- would folks be willing to share brief descriptions of roughly what each level of MCPS Spanish looks like?

It would be super helpful to know generally what kinds of things they do/learn each year, and what a kid is expected to come out of the year with in order to be prepared for the next level. I'd also be interested to hear what kinds of things kids *are* able to do at what level even if it's not related to school success and what their level of proficiency looks/feels like (things like, at what level a kid might be able to mostly follow a Spanish language movie or TV show with Spanish subtitles on? Read a graphic novel on Spanish? Get by during travel in a Spanish-speaking country? Etc). If you are familiar with formal proficiency ratings like CEFR/DELE or ACTFL, please feel free to use those to describe, if it's easier.

I know this is kind of a big ask so feel free to just describe one or two levels if you're not up for all of them! And feel free to share info from other languages besides Spanish...