OP,

I don't mean this in a nasty way at all, but you do realize you're enabling your parents' refusal to hire help, by going to their house and helping?

I understand you'd want to do that for parents you like and respect.

But I do not understand your motivation to do this after the screed you wrote. Were you raised to be very obedient and respect all elders despite their cantankerousness? That's very virtuous, but at some point your health, physical and mental, is going to deteriorate with the constant comings and goings, and you might regret not having put your foot down earlier, and forced them into hiring someone by refusing to do that work yourself.

I know it's a game of chicken, of course. They might suffer and fall and be in pain and risk their lives before they ever agree to hire someone. Or they might prefer to just die on the floor before letting a stranger into their home. Some people are like that. But considering the history you just described... that's a risk you might be willing to take.

Anonymous wrote:OP I'd start looking for a care manager that can be paid from your parent's money. Initially she will just visit and make some suggestions regarding safety changes. Eventually she can hire and manage care givers that come into your parents home. If your parents want to age in place this is how it is done. It's expensive (up to 25K) a month for full time in home care but it's the best way if that is what they want to do.

PP. This is really helpful, thank you.

OP I'd start looking for a care manager that can be paid from your parent's money. Initially she will just visit and make some suggestions regarding safety changes. Eventually she can hire and manage care givers that come into your parents home. If your parents want to age in place this is how it is done. It's expensive (up to 25K) a month for full time in home care but it's the best way if that is what they want to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^meant, it’s a balance between living out your own *value* system and protecting the health of yourself and your family

Especially if your values say you can ignore those who are weak, frail, old or in need. Hi MAGA.

Adults, including the adult children of elderly parents, are allowed to set boundaries. It’s healthier for everyone. That’s not political, it’s human psychology.

Even decades ago, a study suggested the challenges and “micropolitics” of aging parents and the caregiving provided by their adult children:

“Aging parents in individualist families were found to have greater power than those in collectivist families who received higher levels of care. This suggests a trade-off between power and care. The data also indicate that when aging parents receive care and don't reciprocate with deference, intergenerational relations become strained, and children are likely to set limits on their caregiving.”

https://www.jstor.org/stable/353568

Food for thought.

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, at the end of the day they are making their own choices. It’s imperative that you don’t sacrifice the well being of your own family to keep your parents from feeling the consequences of their actions.

Have a heart-to-heart with your husband and decide on your boundaries, and stick to them. Your sibling, despite being nearby, has the same right to set boundaries about what help they can or cannot offer your parents; if they decide to do more than you’re willing to do, that’s their choice. It’s a balancing act between living out your own beliefs system and protecting the health of yourself and you family, which you are entitled to do. Because it doesn’t sound like your parents will look out for your well-being, snd that’s something we all have to do for ourselves.

Regarding PPs comments - you can be kind and live by your values while maintaining those necessary boundaries, especially in light of the abuse you endured.

This. I agree with this not the person trying to guilt trip you and imply you aren't kind if you step back more. Your a parent and spouse before you are an adult child.

In my case I wasted too many years not having enough boundaries and it took it's toll on my health. It wasn't even appreciated. The more demanding and mean my mother got the more I realized I could break myself and she would not be satisfied and would insult and manipulate do nothing and she would be satisfied and would insult me. I decided the most ethical thing I could do is make sure she receives proper care, but step back more. I hired someone to manage what she needs who is trained to negotiate with challenging elderly people.

Also, no reason to get them groceries. They can use grocery delivery services and even meal delivery services. If they refuse that's on them. If the use of computer scares them, the care manager set it up. If they want to shop in person, an aide can help them. It's not your problem if they refuse all this.

They can have a cleaning person come. Again if they refuse, that's on them. They can afford it and it's not your job to sacrifice time with your children/spouse/job whatever for that.

You and your sibling are enabling them and reinforcing their poor behavior by continuing this cycle. As PP said, figure out your boundaries and as I say just make sure can get decent paid care they can afford and check on things.

Anonymous wrote:^^meant, it’s a balance between living out your own *value* system and protecting the health of yourself and your family

Especially if your values say you can ignore those who are weak, frail, old or in need. Hi MAGA.

^^meant, it’s a balance between living out your own *value* system and protecting the health of yourself and your family

Honestly, at the end of the day they are making their own choices. It’s imperative that you don’t sacrifice the well being of your own family to keep your parents from feeling the consequences of their actions.

Have a heart-to-heart with your husband and decide on your boundaries, and stick to them. Your sibling, despite being nearby, has the same right to set boundaries about what help they can or cannot offer your parents; if they decide to do more than you’re willing to do, that’s their choice. It’s a balancing act between living out your own beliefs system and protecting the health of yourself and you family, which you are entitled to do. Because it doesn’t sound like your parents will look out for your well-being, snd that’s something we all have to do for ourselves.

Regarding PPs comments - you can be kind and live by your values while maintaining those necessary boundaries, especially in light of the abuse you endured.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm in the same boat and struggle with the back and forth i have about they are parents but they were awful, father a total player who is now married to the other women and the need care but won't move, won't accept any help.

They fall all the time and never mention it until you show up at the door and see the cuts and bruises. They lie to the doctors about their living situation and at the end of the day I am not letting it bother me and they decided this was what they wanted.

Not our problem. I do what I can and I am not going to let them think just because they are old that all is forgiven. Not to mention they are born again Christians so they really feel they are forgiven and the rest of us are beneath them.

You don't have to forgive them to be kind to them. I already posted this but -- be who you are. Are you only kind and giving towards people who "deserve" it or are you kind because YOU are kind? I'm not sure your religious beliefs but being able to give to others and be selfless is an incredible privilege. Don't squander it out of spite.

This is a little too rosy. The ideal? Sure, but there will be a tumble of emotions for OP while she’s there based on her upbringing and simply human nature. OP, do what you can to feel you are a decent person accepting that we are all flawed in some ways then recognize you are not required to be a handmaiden when they have resources and made the choices they did. Difficult personalities magnify everything. Pop in and out. Help them hire support.Compartmentalize to keep your sanity. If abuse kicks up, walk out each time it happens until he sees you won’t take it. IMO of course.

Anonymous wrote:Do not act like the hired help, OP. Do not clean. Do not cook. Do not fetch groceries yourself. Your sibling shouldn't do that either. Your parents need to feel the pressure to have an aide around the house, and they won't feel that pressure until you two stop doing stuff for them!!!

My husband compartmentalized and did what he could when his bipolar father, who had terrorized his family for years, became infirm and needed a lot of medical care. Distance really helped - we couldn't pop in because we lived on a different continent. DH is a doctor, and he reviewed his father's medical files, asked for extra tests, suggested medications, directed what sort of home accommodations he needed, questioned his father over the phone about his side effects, and his siblings were the people on the ground. The siblings tried to minimize actual contact with their father, which was necessary. My MIL sadly bore the brunt of his moods, but she hired helpers for the house, so she wasn't physically doing any grunt work. She had a gardener, a housecleaner who also did laundry, and she hired a caterer to occasionally cook some meals for them.

So I would advise you to maintain your distance, as much as you can. I know elders in nursing homes are better cared for if there's always the possibility of a drop-in from a relative, but in your case... he has not earned that from you, so don't worry about it. They can go to separate nursing homes, so that your mother can have relief from him, and you can visit her if you want to - you might find she changes her tune rapidly when she's not in his company! When they get too old and infirm, they can get on the list of a Medicaid home, and spend down their assets, and that will be that.

But before this time, DO NOT create the expectation that the two adult children have to travel to them and help them out.

Family of monsters. How did you and your DH find each other? Wow.

Anonymous wrote: I'm in the same boat and struggle with the back and forth i have about they are parents but they were awful, father a total player who is now married to the other women and the need care but won't move, won't accept any help.

They fall all the time and never mention it until you show up at the door and see the cuts and bruises. They lie to the doctors about their living situation and at the end of the day I am not letting it bother me and they decided this was what they wanted.

Not our problem. I do what I can and I am not going to let them think just because they are old that all is forgiven. Not to mention they are born again Christians so they really feel they are forgiven and the rest of us are beneath them.

You don't have to forgive them to be kind to them. I already posted this but -- be who you are. Are you only kind and giving towards people who "deserve" it or are you kind because YOU are kind? I'm not sure your religious beliefs but being able to give to others and be selfless is an incredible privilege. Don't squander it out of spite.

Do not act like the hired help, OP. Do not clean. Do not cook. Do not fetch groceries yourself. Your sibling shouldn't do that either. Your parents need to feel the pressure to have an aide around the house, and they won't feel that pressure until you two stop doing stuff for them!!!

My husband compartmentalized and did what he could when his bipolar father, who had terrorized his family for years, became infirm and needed a lot of medical care. Distance really helped - we couldn't pop in because we lived on a different continent. DH is a doctor, and he reviewed his father's medical files, asked for extra tests, suggested medications, directed what sort of home accommodations he needed, questioned his father over the phone about his side effects, and his siblings were the people on the ground. The siblings tried to minimize actual contact with their father, which was necessary. My MIL sadly bore the brunt of his moods, but she hired helpers for the house, so she wasn't physically doing any grunt work. She had a gardener, a housecleaner who also did laundry, and she hired a caterer to occasionally cook some meals for them.

So I would advise you to maintain your distance, as much as you can. I know elders in nursing homes are better cared for if there's always the possibility of a drop-in from a relative, but in your case... he has not earned that from you, so don't worry about it. They can go to separate nursing homes, so that your mother can have relief from him, and you can visit her if you want to - you might find she changes her tune rapidly when she's not in his company! When they get too old and infirm, they can get on the list of a Medicaid home, and spend down their assets, and that will be that.

But before this time, DO NOT create the expectation that the two adult children have to travel to them and help them out.

I'm in the same boat and struggle with the back and forth i have about they are parents but they were awful, father a total player who is now married to the other women and the need care but won't move, won't accept any help.

They fall all the time and never mention it until you show up at the door and see the cuts and bruises. They lie to the doctors about their living situation and at the end of the day I am not letting it bother me and they decided this was what they wanted.

Not our problem. I do what I can and I am not going to let them think just because they are old that all is forgiven. Not to mention they are born again Christians so they really feel they are forgiven and the rest of us are beneath them.

Try to be a nice person? who you are shouldn't hinge on who your father is. Be giving, loving, nurturing -- if that's who you are.

How do you do it? My father is in his early 80s, and over the last 20 years, has become increasingly combative and nasty. When DH and I got married a few decades ago and moved about three hours away for work, my father was pretty much pissed off that I had the audacity to leave without his blessing (he's always been more or less of a chauvinist who thinks he has a say when it comes to his daughters). He ragged on our first house and for a while, we had to reduce contact with my parents because of his behavior. So, we tried again when we had kids, and they were nice grandparents, but now that the kids are older, things are getting difficult again. My mom knows his behavior sucks and that he's basically showing the same mean a$$hole streak his own father had, but she ignores it or weakly tries to defend him or rationalize his crap behavior. It's toxic, but as always, it's everyone else, not them. They were verbally abuse when I was a kid, yelling at me into the night over slights (I was a pretty good kid, great grades, did well, did not cause trouble, but yikes, they way they got after with with the verbal assaults you'd think I lived on the street corner doing drugs and calling them for bail money).

Well, I'm going to have to start traveling probably at least once a month on weekends to assist my sibling who lives near them. They refuse to move into assisted living (they can afford it) and are being very stubborn. We'll help with groceries, light clearing, pay a neighbor to look in on them, stuff like that, but it's going to get more intense. I expect one or both will have a fall within a year or two, and then they will have to go into a home. We don't have the time/bandwidth/financial situation to care for them. My sibling travels quite a bit for work and can't leave her job. I also work, am managing life with teenagers, and frankly, do not like my parents very much as people.

So, what's the best way to handle this? What have those of you done in the same situation?