Anonymous wrote:I would look for a recipe that has the proportions you want rather than changing an existing recipe.

Also I like breads with honey more than with sugar.

This. Altering an existing recipe to reduce sugar won't necessarily yield the results you like.

There are lots of factors that can impact the chewiness of bread, the type of flour, the kneading time, the amount of water, the rise time, the amount of sugar, etc. Without physically touching your bread I have no idea what your issue is. Is your crumb structure too tight? Is it collapsing from being over proofed. Or is it underproofed and not risinf enough. Are you over kneading it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The gluten flour was labeled that when I bought it (at a natural foods store, my grocery store carried gluten years ago but no longer). I just looked it up quick and hits (didn't go to the pages) were saying they're the same.

Do you mean it was labeled gluten flour on a bulk bin?

I have a Bob's Red Mill bag that looks like this (except mine is English only):

https://www.bobsredmill.com/product/vital-wheat-gluten

So it's "gluten flour", in big letters, modified by "vital wheat" in small letters that don't look important. Protein percentage is an indicator of gluten content. This is a whopping 70-80%. For comparison, King Arthur bread all-purpose flour is 11.7%, their bread flour is 12.7%, their whole wheat flour is 13.2%.

They don't have bins, they have bags. A lot of stuff they bag themselves. I don't remember if this was one bagged by them (I put it in a restaurant food container in the fridge where I keep the whole wheat flour). I asked if this was the same as buying gluten and the guy at the store (started by his dad 50 years ago, one son took over when dad died about 15 years ago) and he says that's what people buy when they are buying gluten.

I asked Claude why it is called vital. Learned that when used for non-food purposes (some adhesives, paper), animal feed, protein powder it is heated or treated in other ways to break down the structure of the proteins. Also that it looks and feels different than high gluten flour. So I suspect what I have is probably the latter.

Anonymous wrote:
The gluten flour was labeled that when I bought it (at a natural foods store, my grocery store carried gluten years ago but no longer). I just looked it up quick and hits (didn't go to the pages) were saying they're the same.

Do you mean it was labeled gluten flour on a bulk bin?

I have a Bob's Red Mill bag that looks like this (except mine is English only):

https://www.bobsredmill.com/product/vital-wheat-gluten

So it's "gluten flour", in big letters, modified by "vital wheat" in small letters that don't look important. Protein percentage is an indicator of gluten content. This is a whopping 70-80%. For comparison, King Arthur bread all-purpose flour is 11.7%, their bread flour is 12.7%, their whole wheat flour is 13.2%.

It’s the vital wheat gluten (you call it gluten flour) making the bread chewy. Try replacing that with ap flour. Whole wheat flour will also have higher gluten. Don’t change knead time, it’s necessary to activate the existing gluten in the flour. I agree about the sugar, makes it rise too fast then fall…so keep it at the level you like.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is it gluten flour (wheat gluten) or gluten-free flour?

The bread has too much gluten, so I think we're talking about the former. Next question is whether gluten flour refers to high gluten flour or to vital wheat gluten. If vital wheat gluten then 1 cup is way too much. I use 10 grams (a tablespoon or two) of vital wheat gluten in a recipe for a 2 lb. whole wheat loaf.

I was surprised how many people thought I was using gluten free when I said gluten flour.

The gluten flour was labeled that when I bought it (at a natural foods store, my grocery store carried gluten years ago but no longer). I just looked it up quick and hits (didn't go to the pages) were saying they're the same.

The sugar part some people mentioned was silly. The Amish bread recipe makes a very sweet bread, and you don't need 2/3 c of water to feed yeast, most recipes might call for a tablespoon or something to start the yeast before mixing it with the flour.

Anonymous wrote:OP, is it gluten flour (wheat gluten) or gluten-free flour?

The bread has too much gluten, so I think we're talking about the former. Next question is whether gluten flour refers to high gluten flour or to vital wheat gluten. If vital wheat gluten then 1 cup is way too much. I use 10 grams (a tablespoon or two) of vital wheat gluten in a recipe for a 2 lb. whole wheat loaf.

OP, is it gluten flour (wheat gluten) or gluten-free flour?

I would look for a recipe that has the proportions you want rather than changing an existing recipe.

Also I like breads with honey more than with sugar.

This is the best white bread recipe hands down.

https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/20066/traditional-white-bread/

Why would you swap the flour to gluten free?

Anonymous wrote:I started baking my own bread this year to save money. I modified an Amish sandwich bread recipe--half the sugar (the recipe has 2/3 cup for two loaves) and instead of all white flour I do 2 c whole wheat, 1 c gluten flour, 2 c white all purpose, and then whatever flour for kneading (mostly done with mixer and dough hook but I do some at the end) is white. It's nice and soft and has good flavor but it is chewy even though not dense--like you have to rip the bread with your teeth. Which is fine for a slice of bread and butter but not so much for a sandwich.

So the next time I bake it, should I cut back on the gluten? Or is it getting kneaded too much?

Yeast needs the sugar to grow. It is not for sweetness, it is for fluffing the bread.

Try increasing the sugar to what the recipe requires.

I would try a different recipe. Bread is not like a casserole that can easily be swapped. I like Sally’s whole wheat bread.

https://sallysbakingaddiction.com/whole-wheat-bread/#tasty-recipes-126009

I assume you are using 1 cup gluten free flour? Stop that. I wouldn’t use that at all, it’s crap for bread making, unless you actually need it to be gluten free, which clearly you don’t.

If it calls for 5 cups flour, I’d use 1 cup whole wheat, 4 cups unbleached white flour.

ask the Bread Doctore.

I started baking my own bread this year to save money. I modified an Amish sandwich bread recipe--half the sugar (the recipe has 2/3 cup for two loaves) and instead of all white flour I do 2 c whole wheat, 1 c gluten flour, 2 c white all purpose, and then whatever flour for kneading (mostly done with mixer and dough hook but I do some at the end) is white. It's nice and soft and has good flavor but it is chewy even though not dense--like you have to rip the bread with your teeth. Which is fine for a slice of bread and butter but not so much for a sandwich.

So the next time I bake it, should I cut back on the gluten? Or is it getting kneaded too much?