Anonymous
07/15/2025 15:40
Subject: Re:Beliefs
No way!
Anonymous
07/15/2025 15:38
Subject: Beliefs
You are mistaking hate for the truth.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 15:37
Subject: Re:Beliefs
Not exactly an answer to your question, but I’m Jewish and in all my years of going to various temples I’ve never once heard a rabbi say anything at services about gay people. Though for a while we had a lesbian rabbi so I’m guessing she was totally cool with gay marriage.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 15:31
Subject: Re:Beliefs
Anonymous wrote:Why? Because religious dogma is more important to them than people, which is antithetical to Jesus' teachings. It would be enough to turn me off from any church.
+1 and that particular piece of dogma is especially important to them, which is why they spell it out for you. They are essentially saying that if you don't agree with this point, you shouldn't join their church.
I disagree with them, but give them credit for saying it upfront.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:36
Subject: Beliefs
Anonymous wrote:What 13:20 said, but much more nicely stated.
To these churches, there are a few core doctrines that are of prime importance - the Apostles Creed is going to be a solid summary, though if they're part of a denomination with a statement of faith (Westminster Confession, 39 Articles, and similar) that's also a good place to look. One of those core doctrines - probably ranked just below ones about the Trinity in importance - is going to be that the Bible is the authoritative Word of God and is literal for the genre of each book. Since Romans (for example) is a letter, these churches believe that the church has to follow what Romans 1 says.
And what 13:20 said about Jesus' teachings being antithetical to that? PP should read the Sermon on the Mount and what it says about divorce. Seriously. Jesus had some pretty strong opinions on marriage. The image you might have of a sweet and mild Jesus doesn't really match what the Gospels show the God-man was really like.
I'm curious why you automatically assume these beliefs are "hateful." Do you assume these churches also hate anyone heterosexual living together outside of marriage? Or anyone who divorced without adultery and remarried? Because those are doctrines that I'd say most of these churches consider equally important - but nobody assumes they hate divorcees I don't think.
Also, thanks for reminding me of what these people are like.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:36
Subject: Beliefs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What 13:20 said, but much more nicely stated.
To these churches, there are a few core doctrines that are of prime importance - the Apostles Creed is going to be a solid summary, though if they're part of a denomination with a statement of faith (Westminster Confession, 39 Articles, and similar) that's also a good place to look. One of those core doctrines - probably ranked just below ones about the Trinity in importance - is going to be that the Bible is the authoritative Word of God and is literal for the genre of each book. Since Romans (for example) is a letter, these churches believe that the church has to follow what Romans 1 says.
And what 13:20 said about Jesus' teachings being antithetical to that? PP should read the Sermon on the Mount and what it says about divorce. Seriously. Jesus had some pretty strong opinions on marriage. The image you might have of a sweet and mild Jesus doesn't really match what the Gospels show the God-man was really like.
I'm curious why you automatically assume these beliefs are "hateful." Do you assume these churches also hate anyone heterosexual living together outside of marriage? Or anyone who divorced without adultery and remarried? Because those are doctrines that I'd say most of these churches consider equally important - but nobody assumes they hate divorcees I don't think.
OP here. I think it is hateful to say people should not be allowed to marry. Regarding the rest, you are being willfully and childishly obtuse. I am hoping no one else engages with you so we can have a productive conversation.
You asked for real experiences. I gave you the theology that's held by many of the churches that you are speaking of. But I'm happy to bow out of the conversation and leave you to whatever answers you were looking to get to begin with.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:35
Subject: Beliefs
Anonymous wrote:What 13:20 said, but much more nicely stated.
To these churches, there are a few core doctrines that are of prime importance - the Apostles Creed is going to be a solid summary, though if they're part of a denomination with a statement of faith (Westminster Confession, 39 Articles, and similar) that's also a good place to look. One of those core doctrines - probably ranked just below ones about the Trinity in importance - is going to be that the Bible is the authoritative Word of God and is literal for the genre of each book. Since Romans (for example) is a letter, these churches believe that the church has to follow what Romans 1 says.
And what 13:20 said about Jesus' teachings being antithetical to that? PP should read the Sermon on the Mount and what it says about divorce. Seriously. Jesus had some pretty strong opinions on marriage. The image you might have of a sweet and mild Jesus doesn't really match what the Gospels show the God-man was really like.
I'm curious why you automatically assume these beliefs are "hateful." Do you assume these churches also hate anyone heterosexual living together outside of marriage? Or anyone who divorced without adultery and remarried? Because those are doctrines that I'd say most of these churches consider equally important - but nobody assumes they hate divorcees I don't think.
They use to refuse communion to divorcees so yes, they hated divorcees. They won't allow them to marry hence they live in sin for the rest of their lives.
They eventually had to move on from this hate and now have put the LGBT community in their cross hairs.
What happened in 1946 with respect to the bible, are you aware?
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:34
Subject: Beliefs
Anonymous wrote:What 13:20 said, but much more nicely stated.
To these churches, there are a few core doctrines that are of prime importance - the Apostles Creed is going to be a solid summary, though if they're part of a denomination with a statement of faith (Westminster Confession, 39 Articles, and similar) that's also a good place to look. One of those core doctrines - probably ranked just below ones about the Trinity in importance - is going to be that the Bible is the authoritative Word of God and is literal for the genre of each book. Since Romans (for example) is a letter, these churches believe that the church has to follow what Romans 1 says.
And what 13:20 said about Jesus' teachings being antithetical to that? PP should read the Sermon on the Mount and what it says about divorce. Seriously. Jesus had some pretty strong opinions on marriage. The image you might have of a sweet and mild Jesus doesn't really match what the Gospels show the God-man was really like.
I'm curious why you automatically assume these beliefs are "hateful." Do you assume these churches also hate anyone heterosexual living together outside of marriage? Or anyone who divorced without adultery and remarried? Because those are doctrines that I'd say most of these churches consider equally important - but nobody assumes they hate divorcees I don't think.
OP here. I think it is hateful to say people should not be allowed to marry. Regarding the rest, you are being willfully and childishly obtuse. I am hoping no one else engages with you so we can have a productive conversation.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:33
Subject: Re:Beliefs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Would you go to a church that states on its website that black and white people can't marry?
Would you go to a church that refuses communion to someone who is divorced?
OP here. No to all of these things. But I have a cousin who is gay who does go to a church with the marriage statement on its website. Maybe I’m just naive but I cannot imagine that all of the otherwise nice people who attend these churches are anti-gay. I guess my stupid hope is just that there was something I was missing—some logical way this might not be as problematic as it seems.
Christians are capable of understanding that we all are equally deserving of punishment in the eyes of God (though not all equally bad to other people, if that makes sense), we all need Jesus, and we all should be loving to other people regardless. In fact a Christian whose truly deep into their faith should be one of the most humble and loving people you've ever met.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:32
Subject: Re:Beliefs
Anonymous wrote:Would you go to a church that states on its website that black and white people can't marry?
Would you go to a church that refuses communion to someone who is divorced?
OP here. No to all of these things. But I have a cousin who is gay who does go to a church with the marriage statement on its website. Maybe I’m just naive but I cannot imagine that all of the otherwise nice people who attend these churches are anti-gay. I guess my stupid hope is just that there was something I was missing—some logical way this might not be as problematic as it seems.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:27
Subject: Beliefs
What 13:20 said, but much more nicely stated.
To these churches, there are a few core doctrines that are of prime importance - the Apostles Creed is going to be a solid summary, though if they're part of a denomination with a statement of faith (Westminster Confession, 39 Articles, and similar) that's also a good place to look. One of those core doctrines - probably ranked just below ones about the Trinity in importance - is going to be that the Bible is the authoritative Word of God and is literal for the genre of each book. Since Romans (for example) is a letter, these churches believe that the church has to follow what Romans 1 says.
And what 13:20 said about Jesus' teachings being antithetical to that? PP should read the Sermon on the Mount and what it says about divorce. Seriously. Jesus had some pretty strong opinions on marriage. The image you might have of a sweet and mild Jesus doesn't really match what the Gospels show the God-man was really like.
I'm curious why you automatically assume these beliefs are "hateful." Do you assume these churches also hate anyone heterosexual living together outside of marriage? Or anyone who divorced without adultery and remarried? Because those are doctrines that I'd say most of these churches consider equally important - but nobody assumes they hate divorcees I don't think.
To these churches, there are a few core doctrines that are of prime importance - the Apostles Creed is going to be a solid summary, though if they're part of a denomination with a statement of faith (Westminster Confession, 39 Articles, and similar) that's also a good place to look. One of those core doctrines - probably ranked just below ones about the Trinity in importance - is going to be that the Bible is the authoritative Word of God and is literal for the genre of each book. Since Romans (for example) is a letter, these churches believe that the church has to follow what Romans 1 says.
And what 13:20 said about Jesus' teachings being antithetical to that? PP should read the Sermon on the Mount and what it says about divorce. Seriously. Jesus had some pretty strong opinions on marriage. The image you might have of a sweet and mild Jesus doesn't really match what the Gospels show the God-man was really like.
I'm curious why you automatically assume these beliefs are "hateful." Do you assume these churches also hate anyone heterosexual living together outside of marriage? Or anyone who divorced without adultery and remarried? Because those are doctrines that I'd say most of these churches consider equally important - but nobody assumes they hate divorcees I don't think.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:23
Subject: Re:Beliefs
Would you go to a church that states on its website that black and white people can't marry?
Would you go to a church that refuses communion to someone who is divorced?
Would you go to a church that refuses communion to someone who is divorced?
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:21
Subject: Re:Beliefs
Nope!
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:20
Subject: Re:Beliefs
Why? Because religious dogma is more important to them than people, which is antithetical to Jesus' teachings. It would be enough to turn me off from any church.
Anonymous
07/15/2025 13:15
Subject: Beliefs
If you aren’t anti-gay, do you find it possible to be part of a church that has, in the information about their beliefs on their website, a statement about marriage being between one man and one woman?
We are looking for a church. Live in Fairfax. Have been exposed to some lovely, active churches (mostly non-denominational) where people seem great. No outward signs of being super conservative. Reasonably diverse. Have met well-educated people there. But then there’s that statement right there on the website.
These places seem so welcoming and to be striving to grow and proselytize. So, they must be truly anti-gay to still want to scare people off with that statement of belief, right?
I’m not gay but don’t want my kids (or me) exposed to hateful beliefs. I guess I’m just hoping for some insight into why a church would choose to do this and any thoughts about whether such a statement might actually not be an indication of an anti-gay agenda. Not looking for prescriptive advice as much as I’m interested in others’ thoughts and experiences.
We are looking for a church. Live in Fairfax. Have been exposed to some lovely, active churches (mostly non-denominational) where people seem great. No outward signs of being super conservative. Reasonably diverse. Have met well-educated people there. But then there’s that statement right there on the website.
These places seem so welcoming and to be striving to grow and proselytize. So, they must be truly anti-gay to still want to scare people off with that statement of belief, right?
I’m not gay but don’t want my kids (or me) exposed to hateful beliefs. I guess I’m just hoping for some insight into why a church would choose to do this and any thoughts about whether such a statement might actually not be an indication of an anti-gay agenda. Not looking for prescriptive advice as much as I’m interested in others’ thoughts and experiences.