Anonymous wrote:My oldest is at Berkeley, in-state. Her younger siblings didn’t even want to apply, after seeing what a machine it is. They wouldn’t have gone for H, but Y or P, absolutely.

How exactly is it a machine?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, at least for STEM, Cal is far ahead.

False for math, chemistry, physics. There’s more in the world than just engineering and cs.

Berkeley is excellent for all of them due to not enforcing prereqs - therefore the ceiling is higher than even the smartest students are capable of reaching.

This site places Princeton 1st, Yale 2nd, Harvard 3rd and UCB 35th when considered among colleges and universities nationally:

https://share.google/vXLzCAZRbXKZNmc8P

Students may be inclined to choose one of the higher ranked schools in such a comparison.

It will depend on the major and the ambition.

Harvard and Yale are non-players in engineering or CS. I wouldn't recommend anyone at all does CS these days. But for engineering, Princeton and Berkeley are much more serious schools than Harvard or Yale.

But Berkeley comes with a lot of annoyances for an undergrad. I don't care for HYP and their stupid, undeserved status for undergrad, but I'd still suggest them over Berkeley today - even in the STEM majors for undergrad. Berkeley is not great for undergrads. Yale and Harvard may suck in engineering, but they have the means where a bright, motivated student can find a space and opportunities. Whereas Berkeley is a factory assembly line for every undergrad.

You are talking oos tuition. This is not graduate school and your point of comparison is way off. Go down several notches.

For example, would take USC over Berkeley in a heartbeat. Georgetown, BC, WashU, and on and on…

Anonymous wrote:No, at least for STEM, Cal is far ahead.

False for math, chemistry, physics. There’s more in the world than just engineering and cs.

Anonymous wrote:My oldest is at Berkeley, in-state. Her younger siblings didn’t even want to apply, after seeing what a machine it is. They wouldn’t have gone for H, but Y or P, absolutely.

This is it, and, I can’t imagine paying OOS fees for the opportunity for your kid to live in a triple and fight for classes.

Class size matters for quality of education and per capita opportunity. Also, test required>test optional>test blind

My oldest is at Berkeley, in-state. Her younger siblings didn’t even want to apply, after seeing what a machine it is. They wouldn’t have gone for H, but Y or P, absolutely.

Anonymous wrote:No, at least for STEM, Cal is far ahead.

False. Most classes there aren’t even taught by real professors. Average student quality is also much lower. And people would assume you were an ivy/MIT/Stanford reject.

It's not the right question.

The question is often UCB vs. Stanford for in-state students. The majority choose stanford. Cost sensitive in-state families would choose UCB.

For OOS students, no brainer, HYPSM hands down. UCB is light years behind.

Anonymous wrote:No, at least for STEM, Cal is far ahead.

STEM > CS.

No, at least for STEM, Cal is far ahead.

HYP and it’s not even close

Saw the thread
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1264204.page
in the San Francisco forum on dcum. Always choose HYP over Berkeley?

What do astute adults on this forum say?