Anonymous wrote:You all just defined upper class in all these examples not UMC. Wild to think how poor you all think you are.

I'm almost 60. UMC today buys a standard middle class life from the 70s. It's ridiculous how the middle class is shrinking.

You all just defined upper class in all these examples not UMC. Wild to think how poor you all think you are.

Upper end of UMC to me is:

People who can afford nearly every material thing they want but still work full time+ for a living. Awesome house, private schools, fully funding retirement and college funds, nice vehicles, frequent luxury travel etc.

Lower end of UMC is a lot harder to define. But generally to me it means financially comfortable day-to-day, home in a nice neighborhood, saving appropriately for retirement, and can afford SOME nice things but have to budget & pick and choose. And obviously, they work full time+.

And the income thresholds for each will depend on geographic region.

OP,

You do realize that this threshold is not real, because wealth exists on a continuum, and placing a divider anywhere will be very subjective? You may reach a number by consensus here on DCUM, because it's a reasonably like-minded group that skews rich in a geographically defined place... but ask someone else elsewhere, you'll get a different number.

Also, exceptions abound. Personally, I have assets that run to 20M or so. However my income is low (<100K a year). This is not a typical situation and I reject the usual categorizations.

ANOTHER one of these threads...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The lower end of UMC really depends on how the income is earned. One $225k income and a SAHP, so no/very low child care costs, might do it. But two equal earners with a HHI $250k and lots of student loan debt in their 30s/40s might not. I also think it’s not just based solely on income, although that’s the most important factor. But if you have an interesting/prestigious job, like a tenured college professor or a professional classical musician or something … I think people consider that more than a typical office job or a K-12 teacher or what have you.

Upper end of UMC seems more cut and dry to me and I would put that at $500k HHI. Not to say that you’re rich after that, but $500k HHI is top 1.5% of US income earners. That seems like it’s out of “middle” class by any definition.

Anonymous wrote:It really depends where you live. In DC, it takes a lot more money to live an upper middle class lifestyle than it does in my hometown in Upstate NY.

In DC, bottom end is probably 250K but in upstate NY its probably closer to 150K. The price of housing, services, food, kid activities, make up the difference. Those two families probably live similar lives with 100K difference in salary.

That's the key. My brother & SIL live in Indianapolis, IN. They took big pay cuts but live better there than they did here in the DMV area. They have a huge house on land that would be millions here in our area. They just bought a summer home on Lake Michigan that I'm going to visit in 3 weeks. They were lower middle class here in the DMV area but are definitely upper middle class to even lower upper class in Indiana. They kept getting priced out of all houses here and got sick of spending $2000+ a month on rent for nothing.

Lower end of UMC I'd say one person making $350-$400k

Upper end of UMC HHI of $2m.

That's around here. obviously different in different areas.

Here?

$1 million
$10 million

Remember, making $850k is living hand-to-mouth.

I feel I'm the very low end of upper middle class. Grew up poor, was able to get a law degree. Make about $200k now. My husband makes similar. I work and socialize in UMC circles but feel like an outsider. I have a solid retirement but not a high-end house or cars. I take nice (to me) vacations, but they aren't month long safaris across several nations in Africa, like several of my friends have. I saved enough to send my kids to a public in-state college, but could not afford private college without serious aid.

The friend who did the safari is a widow and she has never worked. It's all inherited money. I have no idea what that life would be like from the inside.

It really depends where you live. In DC, it takes a lot more money to live an upper middle class lifestyle than it does in my hometown in Upstate NY.

In DC, bottom end is probably 250K but in upstate NY its probably closer to 150K. The price of housing, services, food, kid activities, make up the difference. Those two families probably live similar lives with 100K difference in salary.

I recognize what you're talking about. There will always be differing opinions and disagreements but keeping in mind that $160k is the threshold to be in the top 10% of salaries (note salary, not HHI), so $160 salary should make you upper middle class at a minimum. But if living off $160k you definitely cannot afford a lot of the trappings associated with the upper middle classes....

I would define lower upper middle classes as having generous six figure incomes and ability to max retirement savings and living in a comfortable house, but cannot afford private schools, for example. Or even full freight private colleges. And still have to budget and typically driving two good Japanese cars but not expensive Mercedes.

The upper end of the upper middle classes would be people with very high incomes but have to work full time for it. You can't retire, you're not living a life of leisure as you're still working. Very senior corp executives, many doctors and lawyers fall into this category. They can afford the $2M+ houses, even a second house, and private schools but it's dependent on their incomes.

The upper classes are people who don't have to work and live extremely well.

If you have to ask, you're not what you think you are...

For what reasons

-lower end of upper middle class
-upper end of upper middle class

Can you define these? lol I'm truly fascinated probably in a bad way.