Anonymous wrote:I'm almost positive that the majority of international students at a school like Harvard are graduate students.

That is how it used to be. There has been an absolutely massive uptick in the number of international students at top schools for undergraduate. This is what has changed. International students used to be mainly graduate students. Now so many are undergraduate students. This is from Common Data Set for 23-24

Harvard Freshman Enrollment
In state students: 210. (12.7%)
Out of state students: 1167 (70.9%)
International Students: 268 (16.2%)
Total first time first degree seeking: 1645

I'm almost positive that the majority of international students at a school like Harvard are graduate students.

Top colleges have become top colleges by managing their own affairs across decades and centuries. Exogenous, authoritarian control of the type you suggest would be likely to weaken them.

Anonymous wrote:The US has benefited hugely from having talent like the founders of google here.

The founders of google were NOT international students. Larry Page was born and grew up in Michigan. His father and mother are American. Sergey Brin came to the US at age 6. He would not be considered an international student. Perhaps if they had applied to college when there were a multitude of international students they would not have been accepted at Univ. of Michigan, University of Maryland and Stanford.

The US has benefited hugely from having talent like the founders of google here.

Anonymous wrote:You would think they would start by limiting international enrollment at state schools first, by apparently Trump is on a revenge tour against Harvard for some reason.

Trump has no business dictating anything to states or private institutions.

For states there is a greater financial impact as OOS and International students pay substantially more. You could argue that the top 20 public institutions could fill their seats with domestic OOS but many public’s like Kansas, Iowa etc really struggle for OOS students and have to rely on international students.

In other countries, international students need to pay a lot more than domestic students.

Dual citizenship is much more of a national security and resource allocation issue than international students at U.S. universities.

You would think they would start by limiting international enrollment at state schools first, by apparently Trump is on a revenge tour against Harvard for some reason.

Not when Trump expects to appoint his own idiots to select the curriculum, hire faculty, and admit students. We live in a democracy and these are independent institutions. It’s disgusting.

What is unfortunate is that there is a national discussion to be had about affordable and equitable access to college. It shouldn’t be considered a luxury to attend but an imperative to attend. Taxpayers should be paying more to ensure the next generation is educated and able to contribute to the economy.

International students do bring value but you can’t claim their presence is to provide a global environment when the overwhelming majority come from 2-3 countries. There is no reason to bring so many in if there are equally or better qualified domestic candidates willing to full pay. If there are not enough domestic candidates to sustain a graduate program then there could be an exception.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

Nope

Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.