Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leave.

OP. Leaving makes it worse. Sitting with her, rubbing her back, and reminding her that she's a good kid usually ends it within a few minutes. Is it really better to leave and have her scream and destroy her room?

No, it's not.

The root of discipline and disciple are the same, and it's about teaching vs. punishment.

You don't have to tolerate the hitting. You can stop that or walk away when she hits, but in what world is it better to punish a child for their emotions vs helping them get through them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leave.

OP. Leaving makes it worse. Sitting with her, rubbing her back, and reminding her that she's a good kid usually ends it within a few minutes. Is it really better to leave and have her scream and destroy her room?

Take everything out of her room, buy a split door, she can have toys in there when you learn to parent. She’s walking all over you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You let her have her meltdown, and *then* put her in a short timeout. You can also inform her then that screen time is being taken away for the next day.

If she melts down again from having to go into timeout, you wait it out, again. Then start the timer for timeout and give her time to cool off.

The point is to let her have a chance to learn how to control her emotions, not to stop the tantrum right now or even today. You talking and telling her that she's losing yet another day of screen time is not giving her time to calm herself down. She needs quiet and space.

OP. I can see the logic here. But how do you enforce a timeout if the melting-down kid keeps opening the door and chasing you around the house to keep hitting or yelling? I've tried holding the door of her room closed but she just pounds and screams "OPEN IT! OPEN IT! LET ME OUT!" and gets even more agitated.

We let DD destroy her room. Tell her to come out when she's calmed down and ready to behave. Once she calms down, she tells us she's ready and then cleans up her room.

Anonymous wrote:I like the Janet Lansbury approach of saying "I won't let you hit me" and gently holding their arms. If you don't like "using force", then you say "I won't let you hit me" and you walk away.

+1
Unless she is unintelligent she will figure out you leave if she hits and if she wants you there will stop hitting you.

Might say I won't let you hit me so if you are hitting me I have to leave the room.

Learn what is happening in your child's brain and strategies that are based on that.

https://bookshop.org/p/books/no-drama-discipline-the-whole-brain-way-to-calm-the-chaos-and-nurture-your-child-s-developing-mind-daniel-j-siegel/9126024?ean=9780345548047&next=t&source=IndieBoundop thinking about punishment and think about discipline- which means teaching. The first book is discipline focused, the second is more comprehensive. They are both very readable.



https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-whole-brain-child-12-revolutionary-strategies-to-nurture-your-child-s-developing-mind-daniel-j-siegel/7338015?ean=9780553386691&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=16235479093&gbraid=0AAAAACfld40bG5JYNpMJaMH3LR4ml2FR0&gclid=CjwKCAjw_pDBBhBMEiwAmY02Nu4Q2-S3XuKUzVNOiFUCvEm-d-IVDvf2BDxKFVulAPbLKTvx_QPdCxoCtwoQAvD_BwE

I like the Janet Lansbury approach of saying "I won't let you hit me" and gently holding their arms. If you don't like "using force", then you say "I won't let you hit me" and you walk away.

Anonymous wrote:You let her have her meltdown, and *then* put her in a short timeout. You can also inform her then that screen time is being taken away for the next day.

If she melts down again from having to go into timeout, you wait it out, again. Then start the timer for timeout and give her time to cool off.

The point is to let her have a chance to learn how to control her emotions, not to stop the tantrum right now or even today. You talking and telling her that she's losing yet another day of screen time is not giving her time to calm herself down. She needs quiet and space.

OP. I can see the logic here. But how do you enforce a timeout if the melting-down kid keeps opening the door and chasing you around the house to keep hitting or yelling? I've tried holding the door of her room closed but she just pounds and screams "OPEN IT! OPEN IT! LET ME OUT!" and gets even more agitated.

Anonymous wrote:Leave.

OP. Leaving makes it worse. Sitting with her, rubbing her back, and reminding her that she's a good kid usually ends it within a few minutes. Is it really better to leave and have her scream and destroy her room?

Leave.

You let her have her meltdown, and *then* put her in a short timeout. You can also inform her then that screen time is being taken away for the next day.

If she melts down again from having to go into timeout, you wait it out, again. Then start the timer for timeout and give her time to cool off.

The point is to let her have a chance to learn how to control her emotions, not to stop the tantrum right now or even today. You talking and telling her that she's losing yet another day of screen time is not giving her time to calm herself down. She needs quiet and space.

A short time-out can work, but it has to be given right when the incident happens, not 30 minutes later. If it is later, child might have forgotten the incident.

I feel like you’re not giving her tools. What do you want her to do instead and does she know and is it realistic. I mean you can’t just keep punishing when it’s clear that she lacks the ability to do what you want and maybe she doesn’t even know what that is.

Years ago when I taught behavior modification, we used to ask people what is the opposite of “don’t hit” and the answer is everything else but hitting. So just saying “don’t hit” isn’t the least bit helpful.

1. Protect her sleep. If she can't handle staying up late, don't let her. Leave parties or dinners early if need be. Keeping your kid well rested, hydrated and well fed is setting them up for success. When you don't protect those three, you're setting them up for potential failure.

2. If you know she's wound up after a big playdate, build in down time. Maybe you pick her up from a friend's house and say you parked two blocks away and walk there, skip there, etc. Give her time to move her body to re-regulate before getting in the car. Once in the car, do an audio book or play music she likes.

I think it's important to realize that there are two goals you can have during a tantrum.

One is to make this tantrum that is going on now end. When you talk about how time out makes things worse, I assume this is what you're talking about, wanting this tantrum to end earlier.

The other is to make the next tantrum less likely, or to make the next tantrum less intense.

In my experience, moving from focusing on the first thing to focusing on the second thing is what helps kids outgrow tantrums.

For my kid, removing all attention made the current tantrum last longer. Without my help to regulate, he needed a lot of time to burn the tantrum off. But it also made the next tantrum less likely, because for my kid my attention was the reinforcer. For other kids, the reinforcer can be escape, and persisting with the demand that they are resisting, or the situation that's overwhelming them, so that they learn that tantrum does not mean escape is the solution.

I'll also say that kids don't need to make a conscious connection for a consequence to work. If you walk away silently each time she hits you, she may hit less, even if she can't articulate that there's a connection.

I am confused about advice I've gotten several times to give my child consequences when she hits me. Because she doesn't hit at school, people say that she's taking advantage of me and doing it on purpose.

But she really only hits when she's in meltdowns - she hasn't slept well the prior night, or she's all hyped up after a big playdate, so she's out of control and her rational brain is offline. When she's in control, warnings/distraction/talking to her deescalates the situation and hitting isn't a problem.

I have tried taking away screentime (She doesn't get much, 30 min a day) as well as sweets. But it just seems to make things worse, because she's not able to process it rationally and she keeps hitting. Before I know it, I've taken away sweets and screentime for several days in the course of one tantrum and totally lost my leverage for any future misbehavior in those days. And she's like "Well, why bother trying to behave, I've lost everything anyway."

Also sending her to timeout makes her more riled up and always makes the meltdowns worse. She doesn't seem to know how to handle them alone.

What kinds of consequences can help here?

And if consequences can't help, what do I do? We try to minimize disruption, but sometimes we do have a trip or late night or big celebration and I can't have her hitting every time she's feeling overwhelmed.
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