Maddening.

Anonymous wrote:FAFO

For ICE maybe. For innocent people who think they are helping a woman who is being abducted? They didn’t FA. And there will be no FO. This is yet another overreach by Trump to cower people into submission. The ACLU or similar will represent them. And hopefully there is an injunction requiring ICE to, you, follow the law and identify themselves and state the grounds for the arrest.

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty basic law that officers must announce and show id when asked.

Do we even know if these guys were actually LEA?

That's what the first paragraph of the story says.

"U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has broken its silence, conceding its agents were responsible for the arrest of two men during a raid on a downtown Charlottesville courthouse and promising that the bystanders who questioned those agents will be prosecuted."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article said they questioned the agents. Questioning plain clothes officers is now a criminal offense?!

Yes. In Trumps America, you must stand quietly while men in black with masks and no insignias, identification, or warrants, who do not identify themselves, grab women off the street. And hope it’s “just” ICE acting outside the law and not human traffickers.

FFS— how hard is it to identify your agency, show a badge and provide a warrant? This is scary sh*t.

Also I am not clear on how this squares with the mens rea requirement for criminal offenses

I’m a lawyer, and that’s my point. It’s not there. For the 95% of people who were forced to take criminal law: In order to obstruct an official proceeding, you must know that it’s an official proceeding you are stopping and not a woman being kidnapped. “Accidentally” criming isn’t a thing. If you don’t know they are ICE and have probable cause for an arrest, there is no crime. This is why LEO carry badges and show warrants. Maybe Trumps goons should try that? It’s not hard.

Good

It's pretty basic law that officers must announce and show id when asked.

Do we even know if these guys were actually LEA?

FAFO

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article said they questioned the agents. Questioning plain clothes officers is now a criminal offense?!

Yes. In Trumps America, you must stand quietly while men in black with masks and no insignias, identification, or warrants, who do not identify themselves, grab women off the street. And hope it’s “just” ICE acting outside the law and not human traffickers.

FFS— how hard is it to identify your agency, show a badge and provide a warrant? This is scary sh*t.

Also I am not clear on how this squares with the mens rea requirement for criminal offenses

Shortly after Trump became President, an illegal immigrant was released from jail to an ICE officer.
Who was not an ICE officer at all, but a buddy of the guy in jail. He was able to do it because ICE often shows up in plain clothes.

https://apnews.com/article/north-dakota-immigration-williston-ice-agent-f89f0f070e5c39cd763a5018017ff332

There is nothing wrong with what those bystanders were doing.

If people don't know whether someone is actually a W enforcement officer or not this does not seem like a legitimate obstruction case. When officers don't present their badge, or actually state that they are even an officer and wear civilian clothing other people will think someone is being kidnapped.

Anonymous wrote:Remember the two women in masks that interfered with an immigration arrest in a Charlottesville courthouse? They will face obstruction charges like the Wisconsin judge.

https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crime-courts/article_e6ce6e4a-4161-476f-8d28-94150a891092.html

Why can't they just present ID and warrants?

"Of the three plainclothes ICE agents captured on camera arresting one of the two men as he emerged from Albemarle County General District Court on Tuesday, one was wearing a balaclava masking his face and none displayed badges or arrest warrants to the man."

Anonymous wrote:The article said they questioned the agents. Questioning plain clothes officers is now a criminal offense?!

My thought exactly. I watched the video and one of the agents was a middle-aged guy with a long ponytail, kind of scruffy looking, and a loose plaid shirt. No way did he look like an LEO. He looked like a rando off the street. If I saw someone looking like they were being abducted by a random looking person in street clothes, I would try to help as well.

Anonymous wrote:The article said they questioned the agents. Questioning plain clothes officers is now a criminal offense?!

Yes. In Trumps America, you must stand quietly while men in black with masks and no insignias, identification, or warrants, who do not identify themselves, grab women off the street. And hope it’s “just” ICE acting outside the law and not human traffickers.

FFS— how hard is it to identify your agency, show a badge and provide a warrant? This is scary sh*t.

The article said they questioned the agents. Questioning plain clothes officers is now a criminal offense?!

Remember the two women in masks that interfered with an immigration arrest in a Charlottesville courthouse? They will face obstruction charges like the Wisconsin judge.

https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crime-courts/article_e6ce6e4a-4161-476f-8d28-94150a891092.html