OP agree most counties start integrating math concepts in elementary school and produce students who perform much better in math. Unfortunately, the US education is wed to teaching what I refer to as chapter book math (Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, Trig, Calculus) because “education professionals” don’t feel kids are ready for abstract thought until middle school.

Algebraic concepts can and should begin in preschool, geometric concepts as well. There is absolutely no reason why gifted kids should not be able to handle Calculus by MS.

Unfortunately, those who administer education in this country are quite frankly not the best and brightest.

But why is calculus considered the most advanced topic? Why isn’t there, for example, AP algebra?

My child’s district recently switched to integrated math, ie teaching everything. It’s not that great, I’d very much prefer the Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 sequence. Most enrichment programs like AOPS, RSM do the same.

International Baccalaureate math is like that, ie a mix of everything, but it’s not very good. AP is Precalculus, Calculus and Statistics and it’s far more in depth.

With algebra, algebra 1 vs algebra, what's the difference and can one take pre calculus and onwards with just mastering algebra 1 concepts?

The way math is taught in US is better. Group the math among major themes to explore them in more depth instead of doing a little of everything. That’s how college classes are organized, and even lower level like college algebra precalculus, trigonometry, statistics.

That doesn’t mean connections shouldn’t be made, I don’t see that a huge issue with this, they can be done even with a algebra geometry sequence.

Anonymous wrote:This has changed since I grew up in the 90s. My 2nd grader is learning all kinds of shapes, which I still don’t know. I learned geometry only in 7th or 8th.

The US still believes we should teach algebra until 7th-9th because little brains can’t handle it. I think algebraic concepts can and should be taught young. My 1st grader is learning variables and unknowns and I think down the line he will be much better placed to understand real algebra in a way I still don’t.

Algebra is taught starting in second grade. It's a slow ramp up to high school algebra.

This has changed since I grew up in the 90s. My 2nd grader is learning all kinds of shapes, which I still don’t know. I learned geometry only in 7th or 8th.

The US still believes we should teach algebra until 7th-9th because little brains can’t handle it. I think algebraic concepts can and should be taught young. My 1st grader is learning variables and unknowns and I think down the line he will be much better placed to understand real algebra in a way I still don’t.

Honestly, I think you just need to learn math on your own. My kid is very good at math and primarily self taught because he was bored, wanted to do a math team, and has a weird problem that he can’t visualize anything in his head. He can’t picture a flower in his head. He is amazing at math and has a really good memory for anything he learns. He never went into STEM. He’s a double major in economics and philosophy.

He did a lot of tutoring in high school to help his friends. The majority of friends all took math outside of school. Russian Math, tutoring places that accelerate you, community college during the summer but always one level behind where they were to ensure an A. It didn’t matter how awful the curriculum or teacher, they aced everything. They did practice SATs until they hit a perfect score multiple times.

My other kid is in STEM. She’s very good at math and intuitive with it. Always straight As up until Calculus. She has ADHD and makes careless mistakes in calculations which teachers would always overlook because she demonstrated mastery of the concept. If there had been more precision in her early math instruction rather than it’s the concept not the answer BS she would have addressed this sooner. In hindsight we should have sent her to Russian math and not trusted the schools.

I asked one of our Asian neighbor friends why she sends her kid to Saturday school for math when she’s already far ahead. She told me it’s that Chinese families aren’t just looking to beat the competition, they don’t trust the schools. They look at what is being taught and who is teaching it and quickly accept it’s bad. She told me Americans expect the schools and government to be good, the Chinese don’t.

I'd rather stick with one type of math for the entire year. It would be confusing for me to not build on what I was learning and instead, switch to something entirely different. Math is hard enough for me.

Maryland is moving to a two-year integrated math sequence.

This is a great question. I also think it leads to a lot of students self-selecting out of math sooner than they should because a lot of American high school students simply don't take Calculus at all. When in reality there should simply be a non-honors math course taught to upperclassmen in high school that teaches a combination of calculus and statistics to an audience who is likely not going to pursue hard sciences or engineering or pure math in after high school, but could still use a general grounding in the concepts. Instead, a lot of kids basically stop taking math after Algebra. This makes no sense.

The original Saxon Math curriculum integrated some geometry into every year. John Saxon thought that there was too much avoidable brain drain by teaching them separately.

I have read that the current Saxon Math has changed. I do not know what those changes might be.

Anonymous wrote:The way you were taught is taught in some American schools. If you look for classes labeled Math I, Math II, or Integrated Math I, II they use this model.

Unfortunately, there are two problems with integrated math in the US:

1. It's not the standard track, so if you are halfway through a combo of algebra and geometry, and then, like many Americans, move, you're either going to be slotted ahead or behind where you should be.

2. The subtler problem is that, in the US, it is basically never something like Singapore's hardcore New Syllabus, but rather districts that adopt integrated math like to go with fluffy, inadequate discovery-oriented curricula.

The way you were taught is taught in some American schools. If you look for classes labeled Math I, Math II, or Integrated Math I, II they use this model.

This isn’t a “why is math so bad in the Us ?” question that I have seen a few times here recently. It’s why is math taught the the way it is here? I mean: why is it taught in separate topics in middle/high school, ending in some form of calculus? I went to school in another country where math each year is a mix of many different topics and the final/hardest math class will have a mix of advanced topics including calculus, statistics, etc. I think it is taught this way in many other places too. I am certainly not assuming that the way I was taught was better (and I never even took the highest level offered in my curriculum), but I am wondering what is the reason for the way it is taught in the US?