Anonymous wrote:My kid is at an Ivy. Straight As, lots of friend, club sport, club and so much more relaxed than HS. He was at a private HS.

He loves that everyone in his classes are really smart—that is what he said. Lots of lovely discussions. His friends are all really funny- witty.

My kid is at an Ivy. Straight As, lots of friend, club sport, club and so much more relaxed than HS. He was at a private HS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always hear that the tough part is getting in and then it's easy. That doesn't seem to be the case for DD. She's at a T5 and the environment is intense. Getting in was step one, then it's the competition for the clubs etc. She has a good group of friends and is doing well but the pressure doesn't let up. Is this the case for all T5-10/20s because colleges are so preprofessional now? My friend's daughter went to Tufts and it was the same. She had a miserable college experience because she was always competing for the next internship. She landed a dream job post-graduation but paid the price during college.

I think this is less about T5/whatever and more about pre-professional kids. My T5 DC has no interest in competitive clubs like consulting so doesn’t experience what you’re talking about. Ironically (or perhaps not, lol), I worked at MBB and DH at a bulge bracket IB.

DP. That might be it.

Anonymous wrote:PP here...I still am very involved with my campus and I would say the academics are not really what's become more cutthroat, it's really the pre-professional hustle. A lot of the kids I mentor as interns at my company tell me the same thing.

+1

Anonymous wrote:I always hear that the tough part is getting in and then it's easy. That doesn't seem to be the case for DD. She's at a T5 and the environment is intense. Getting in was step one, then it's the competition for the clubs etc. She has a good group of friends and is doing well but the pressure doesn't let up. Is this the case for all T5-10/20s because colleges are so preprofessional now? My friend's daughter went to Tufts and it was the same. She had a miserable college experience because she was always competing for the next internship. She landed a dream job post-graduation but paid the price during college.

I think this is less about T5/whatever and more about pre-professional kids. My T5 DC has no interest in competitive clubs like consulting so doesn’t experience what you’re talking about. Ironically (or perhaps not, lol), I worked at MBB and DH at a bulge bracket IB.

PP here...I still am very involved with my campus and I would say the academics are not really what's become more cutthroat, it's really the pre-professional hustle. A lot of the kids I mentor as interns at my company tell me the same thing.

This has changed significantly since my time there, but yeah clubs at the school I went to are so competitive now and pre-professional, like tryouts to be part of the consulting club, or the investment club. In my day, the clubs were pretty relaxed and nobody cared about pre-professional clubs.

Freshmen are also WAY more intense because the recruiting cycle for jobs starts in your sophomore year fall.

Anonymous wrote:I think this may depend more on the kid than the university.

My kid is at a T10 science/engineering double major. Yes, the academics are intense. But no, he is not having a competitive - as in cutthroat - experience at all. Spends a lot of time in the library with his friends. They're just nerdy and he seems to have found his people.

Think about DCUM group-think on rigor of schedule - he did not have a fourth year of foreign language (gasp!) and did not take an AP English course (double gasp!) and had less than 10 APs, maybe 8. Had two free periods senior year! No internship, no "research"! Did as little as he possibly could, but did have multivariable, top grades and scores. Was his genuine self in his app.

So, if someone is going in with the mentality that top college admission is a race to the most APs, etc., and stress about that, then maybe they are looking at their classmates through competitive, cutthroat glasses, so to speak. My kid doesn't look at the situation that way at all. Maybe it's just his personality.

Eerily similar to my DC. Intense challenging classes where 80% are super smart and study hard chasing great grades yes…cutthroat absolutely not! They are very supportive of one another, in class as well as with ECs different ones do.

I think this may depend more on the kid than the university.

My kid is at a T10 science/engineering double major. Yes, the academics are intense. But no, he is not having a competitive - as in cutthroat - experience at all. Spends a lot of time in the library with his friends. They're just nerdy and he seems to have found his people.

Think about DCUM group-think on rigor of schedule - he did not have a fourth year of foreign language (gasp!) and did not take an AP English course (double gasp!) and had less than 10 APs, maybe 8. Had two free periods senior year! No internship, no "research"! Did as little as he possibly could, but did have multivariable, top grades and scores. Was his genuine self in his app.

So, if someone is going in with the mentality that top college admission is a race to the most APs, etc., and stress about that, then maybe they are looking at their classmates through competitive, cutthroat glasses, so to speak. My kid doesn't look at the situation that way at all. Maybe it's just his personality.

My kid went to a rigorous private HS and we always heard that college was easier than his HS.

He got into a top 20, but the only thing that was easier was the schedule. The content was intense for the most part, but he was well prepared.

"kids at T20 are competitive" = water is wet. Of course they are.

They are all competitive. Kids at two different ivies, nephew at a WAS lac where my spouse went, and I went to a non-ivy T10. It was competitive back then too and kids gunned for Goldman Sachs or med school or top law then. The club culture is worse now, but that part is bad at UVA and other T25s or lower too. At least at a T10 the extra prestige helps in moving on to the next stage of life: even the "bottom half" kids with their 3.5 GPAs get into great places.

Besides Harvard, all the T20 schools are pretty tough academically. Students even work hard at Brown. The phrase - the toughest part is getting in - is always used in reference to Harvard, no other school.

As for how stressful and competitive the overall environment is, that varies school by school. But none of these schools are totally chill. The students tend to demand a lot of themselves. But the most balanced schools seem to be Brown, Vanderbilt, Rice, Yale, Notre Dame, and Northwestern.

All of them are very rigorous, despite what gets parroted. Some are more collaborative and less competitive, making it a bit more tolerable to endure. I’m sure there are small pockets that can skate by for whatever reason, but that is not the norm. Those high gpa’s are very much earned in every sense. This narrative abounds as people love to take a jab and cut down schools at the top.

I always hear that the tough part is getting in and then it's easy. That doesn't seem to be the case for DD. She's at a T5 and the environment is intense. Getting in was step one, then it's the competition for the clubs etc. She has a good group of friends and is doing well but the pressure doesn't let up. Is this the case for all T5-10/20s because colleges are so preprofessional now? My friend's daughter went to Tufts and it was the same. She had a miserable college experience because she was always competing for the next internship. She landed a dream job post-graduation but paid the price during college.