Anonymous
01/10/2025 07:24
Subject: Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:A lot of ivy kids are rich. Straight up. Financial aid is provided for those with need, but others are full pay.
So, rich kids from rich families being what they are, some are going to take time off to extend vacations or do things when they suit them. Academically, they'll usually be fine. But it's very disruptive. Obviously, the not-rich kids can't do this, and they largely worked hard to get there, so they're not skipping class or returning late from break because they're still in Zermatt or something. Requiring attendance was seen as anti-equity just a few years ago because people have obligations and disabilities that are invisible, but it can certainly go the other way. But as the rich vs. poor divide increases there's a lot more "above the rules" type behavior in academia.
This is of course a huge generalization, but ask me what it's based on.
Do you really think that Harvard will ever apply this policy to a kid who go in via the Z list? This will be yet another 'above the rules' behavior
Anonymous
01/10/2025 07:23
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Maybe. I know a few law school students who showed up on the first day for the syllabus and the last day for the exam. They seemed to do well.
Anonymous
01/10/2025 07:20
Subject: Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
A lot of ivy kids are rich. Straight up. Financial aid is provided for those with need, but others are full pay.
So, rich kids from rich families being what they are, some are going to take time off to extend vacations or do things when they suit them. Academically, they'll usually be fine. But it's very disruptive. Obviously, the not-rich kids can't do this, and they largely worked hard to get there, so they're not skipping class or returning late from break because they're still in Zermatt or something. Requiring attendance was seen as anti-equity just a few years ago because people have obligations and disabilities that are invisible, but it can certainly go the other way. But as the rich vs. poor divide increases there's a lot more "above the rules" type behavior in academia.
This is of course a huge generalization, but ask me what it's based on.
So, rich kids from rich families being what they are, some are going to take time off to extend vacations or do things when they suit them. Academically, they'll usually be fine. But it's very disruptive. Obviously, the not-rich kids can't do this, and they largely worked hard to get there, so they're not skipping class or returning late from break because they're still in Zermatt or something. Requiring attendance was seen as anti-equity just a few years ago because people have obligations and disabilities that are invisible, but it can certainly go the other way. But as the rich vs. poor divide increases there's a lot more "above the rules" type behavior in academia.
This is of course a huge generalization, but ask me what it's based on.
Anonymous
01/10/2025 07:16
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Maybe that is because you do not learn anything anyway….
I hire an avg of 8 kids from t10 schools every year for the last 15 years at an IB in NYC.
I’m yet to hire one who has learn enough. None of them know anything. I could care less if they took Class A, B or C. But if I give them a very complex real world problem, can they solve it? that is all I care about. I will teach them everything else I need them to know.
It’s “couldn’t care less”.
PP has other grammatical errors, suggesting PP should not be opining on the academic qualifications of anyone.
"I hire an avg of 8 kids from t10 schools every year for the last 15 years at an IB in NYC." (Should be: "I have hired").
"I'm yet to hire one who has learn enough." (Should be: "I have yet to hire one who has learned enough."). Look up the difference between "I have yet to" and "I'm yet to."
Anonymous
01/10/2025 07:14
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Test optional
And unlike Dartmouth, Brown and Yale, Harvard remained test optional this year.
Lower quality students
Anonymous
01/10/2025 07:07
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
That is careerism!
Anonymous
01/10/2025 05:32
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Perhaps at Harvard those majors are not rigorous. At many other universities they are. I know many smart kids from those majors (not from H).
Harvard has long been known as the hardest Ivy to get in, easiest to graduate from. Opposite of Cornell.
It is well known Harvard profs do not care about undergraduate teaching. It is a box to be checked in their week, that’s it.
Anonymous
01/10/2025 05:07
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Maybe that is because you do not learn anything anyway….
I hire an avg of 8 kids from t10 schools every year for the last 15 years at an IB in NYC.
I’m yet to hire one who has learn enough. None of them know anything. I could care less if they took Class A, B or C. But if I give them a very complex real world problem, can they solve it? that is all I care about. I will teach them everything else I need them to know.
You probably overestimate how much you knew straight out of undergrad. It’s the curse of expertise - one is unable to imagine what it’s like not to know something. It’s why chess grandmasters tend not to be the best teachers for novices.
Anonymous
01/10/2025 04:17
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Maybe that is because you do not learn anything anyway….
I hire an avg of 8 kids from t10 schools every year for the last 15 years at an IB in NYC.
I’m yet to hire one who has learn enough. None of them know anything. I could care less if they took Class A, B or C. But if I give them a very complex real world problem, can they solve it? that is all I care about. I will teach them everything else I need them to know.
Which schools prepare their students the best?
Anonymous
01/10/2025 03:38
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Perhaps at Harvard those majors are not rigorous. At many other universities they are. I know many smart kids from those majors (not from H).
Harvard has long been known as the hardest Ivy to get in, easiest to graduate from. Opposite of Cornell.
Anonymous
01/10/2025 02:23
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Maybe that is because you do not learn anything anyway….
I hire an avg of 8 kids from t10 schools every year for the last 15 years at an IB in NYC.
I’m yet to hire one who has learn enough. None of them know anything. I could care less if they took Class A, B or C. But if I give them a very complex real world problem, can they solve it? that is all I care about. I will teach them everything else I need them to know.
It’s “couldn’t care less”.
Anonymous
01/10/2025 00:48
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Maybe that is because you do not learn anything anyway….
I hire an avg of 8 kids from t10 schools every year for the last 15 years at an IB in NYC.
I’m yet to hire one who has learn enough. None of them know anything. I could care less if they took Class A, B or C. But if I give them a very complex real world problem, can they solve it? that is all I care about. I will teach them everything else I need them to know.
That’s corroborated by the students themselves (crazy they’re admitting it these days):
Months ago, a friend wrote me the following, which became the basis for this entire column: “I am graduating with a decent GPA and I know barely anything about economics. Seriously, almost nothing. I’m not joking when I say you could learn what I know with three textbooks and three months of time.”
I know my friend isn’t alone, and neither are Economics concentrators. I’ll say it: Much of what we learn here goes in one ear and out the other. I think that’s pretty telling — something about Harvard’s class structure just isn’t working.
-https://www.thecrimson.com/column/lucas-t-gazianis/article/2024/5/2/gazianis-sections-tutorials-size/
Anonymous
01/10/2025 00:47
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Maybe that is because you do not learn anything anyway….
I hire an avg of 8 kids from t10 schools every year for the last 15 years at an IB in NYC.
I’m yet to hire one who has learn enough. None of them know anything. I could care less if they took Class A, B or C. But if I give them a very complex real world problem, can they solve it? that is all I care about. I will teach them everything else I need them to know.
Anonymous
01/10/2025 00:43
Subject: Re:Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.
Anonymous
01/10/2025 00:39
Subject: Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy
Harvard's new policy requiring undergraduates who miss more than two weeks of classes to take an involuntary leave of absence, starting in the fall. The policy aims to combat lax attitudes toward attendance and boost academic rigor, especially after the pandemic's shift to online learning.
Link: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/12/9/editorial-harvard-skip-class-careerism/
Link: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/12/9/editorial-harvard-skip-class-careerism/