Families don’t all live in the same area like they used to and generally have more opportunities to branch out. I don’t talk to my sibling after years of poor treatment. It’s just not worth it.

Anonymous wrote:It used to be more rare to move far away from family- that is a big piece.

Also, I think women used to spend more time maintaining family ties (even with ILs) than they do now. My dad had 4 brothers- my mom and the other wives planned everything, kept in close touch, and the men mostly just showed up. Most women do a lot less of this now (I know I do)- & expect the DH to take the lead with his family (and many men don’t do a great job at keeping in touch).

+1 and ppl are more likely not to deal with bull. When I was growing up ppl were bothered by stuff but it was swept under the rug. When I had kids I refused to deal with my sibs craziness and didn't go back. Didn't want my kids intertwined with their kids on social media. My kids don't know their cousins.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biggest difference--people are smarter and refuse to take the abuse.

Just like there were less divorces back in the day. Didn't mean that women didn't want them

This. Got my first job out of college in '95 making $32,000 a year, plus great insurance and 4 (!) weeks leave.

I just ghosted my family. I wasn't beholden to them anymore; I was free.

I spoke to my mother twice in the next 20 years. Never once spoke with my father or siblings again. Both parents are dead. I didn't attend either funeral and I ignored calls and texts from random unclws and aunts. My siblings are God knows where. I don't care. No one has reached out for 4 years.

What changed is people can escape now.

Agree, this is simply a natural consequence of ordinary people having more freedom and money than ever before.

This is most likely the reason the rich (celebrities, the aristocratic class in the past) get married and divorced so many times compared to normal folk - because they can ie. they have the resources to.

I don't know whether we are more happier because of it, but to simply answer OP this is not due to growing 'family dysfunction' or whatever, it's just a consequence of more individual freedom.

Anonymous wrote:Women got enough power that they can get away

I think this is the right answer.

If you go back through my family history, there are relatives scattered throughout going back to the 1850s who definitely ran away. But they’re all male. It isn’t until my generation that my female relatives have any sort of agency. Even my mom struggled to rent an apartment when she was single in the 70s until credit rules were changed.

Women got enough power that they can get away

OP, this is very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Lots to think about.

It used to be more rare to move far away from family- that is a big piece.

Also, I think women used to spend more time maintaining family ties (even with ILs) than they do now. My dad had 4 brothers- my mom and the other wives planned everything, kept in close touch, and the men mostly just showed up. Most women do a lot less of this now (I know I do)- & expect the DH to take the lead with his family (and many men don’t do a great job at keeping in touch).

Anonymous wrote:Biggest difference--people are smarter and refuse to take the abuse.

Just like there were less divorces back in the day. Didn't mean that women didn't want them

This. Got my first job out of college in '95 making $32,000 a year, plus great insurance and 4 (!) weeks leave.

I just ghosted my family. I wasn't beholden to them anymore; I was free.

I spoke to my mother twice in the next 20 years. Never once spoke with my father or siblings again. Both parents are dead. I didn't attend either funeral and I ignored calls and texts from random unclws and aunts. My siblings are God knows where. I don't care. No one has reached out for 4 years.

What changed is people can escape now.

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were talking the other night about how both of our families have dysfunction going back at least several generations, but how differently it impacts people today compared to 50 years ago, and how differently people feel and think about it.

The dysfunction in question is lots of alcohol abuse in both families, mental health issues that largely went undiagnosed, plus trauma -- lot of abuse against kids when they were young (not just spanking but like kids being beaten up by parents and siblings), plus societal traumas like the Great Depression, WWII, and the act of immigrating with no money and to a country where they faced a lot of discrimination.

But there are these stark differences between how our parents' and grandparents' generations handled those issues, and how our generation is handling it.

Our grandparents and parents all stayed very close with their siblings, even the ones with serious issues (like serious alcoholism or mental health issues) and continued to maintain those relationships throughout their entire lives. Our parents still talk to or see their living siblings at least once a week even now in their 70s and 80s. And it's not just about proximity -- my parents live very far from all but one of my dad's siblings and they bridge that gap. My mom visits her sisters on opposite sides of the country at least once a year. My dad visits his brothers all over the country regularly. My MIL is in poor health but maintains relationships with all 5 of her living siblings even the ones who live several states away, by phone and occasional visits. They have their differences but their approach is that family is family and they never cut each other out.

Our generation is a different story. I have a sister who has all but cut off all ties with much of our family. She will take my calls but barely communicates and never reach out. My brothers have not cut me off but never reach out or visit. When we visit them, they seem excited to see us and are welcoming but there's no real effort to maintain those relationships. And it is similar with my DH's brother -- we visit him when we visit MIL and he seems glad to see us but he does nothing to maintain or further those relationships. He's never had us over to his house. With him I speculate it is partly because he's never married and he doesn't have the skills for that kind of thing, but my brothers are both married with kids and I have good relationships with my SILs, but still there's no effort from my brothers. One of my SILs I exchange regular emails and texts with and the other we keep track of each other on social media and send holiday cards and kid's birthday cards. But neither of my brother's ever acknowledges my birthday or my kids birthdays and never initiates contact with me, ever.

I just wonder what changed. A lot of the same issues are present by where my parents and grandparents managed to work through them to maintain family ties, my generation just isn't. I now wonder if I will ever see my siblings after my parents pass -- if things continue as they are, I will only see them if I do all the work to make it happen. It's sad.

what does "maintain the relationship" mean? There is a relationship, you do all see each other some. But anything beyond that is based on preference, not a rule--there isn't an amt of contact that kicks off "yep, we have a RELATIONSHIP!". We can't hold people to a standard that can't be measured. Are you looking for lots of phone or social media update sessions? I know personally, these can be overwhelming--I don't feel like giving a blow by blow of my life to perpetuate an intimacy that really doesn't exist, given that we [my extended family and I) do not live near each other.

Anonymous wrote:Biggest difference--people are smarter and refuse to take the abuse.

Just like there were less divorces back in the day. Didn't mean that women didn't want them

+1
This is it exactly. Everyone thought they were "the only one" going through the s***.
Now people understand it and deal with it.

Biggest difference--people are smarter and refuse to take the abuse.

Just like there were less divorces back in the day. Didn't mean that women didn't want them

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were talking the other night about how both of our families have dysfunction going back at least several generations, but how differently it impacts people today compared to 50 years ago, and how differently people feel and think about it.

The dysfunction in question is lots of alcohol abuse in both families, mental health issues that largely went undiagnosed, plus trauma -- lot of abuse against kids when they were young (not just spanking but like kids being beaten up by parents and siblings), plus societal traumas like the Great Depression, WWII, and the act of immigrating with no money and to a country where they faced a lot of discrimination.

But there are these stark differences between how our parents' and grandparents' generations handled those issues, and how our generation is handling it.

Our grandparents and parents all stayed very close with their siblings, even the ones with serious issues (like serious alcoholism or mental health issues) and continued to maintain those relationships throughout their entire lives. Our parents still talk to or see their living siblings at least once a week even now in their 70s and 80s. And it's not just about proximity -- my parents live very far from all but one of my dad's siblings and they bridge that gap. My mom visits her sisters on opposite sides of the country at least once a year. My dad visits his brothers all over the country regularly. My MIL is in poor health but maintains relationships with all 5 of her living siblings even the ones who live several states away, by phone and occasional visits. They have their differences but their approach is that family is family and they never cut each other out.

Our generation is a different story. I have a sister who has all but cut off all ties with much of our family. She will take my calls but barely communicates and never reach out. My brothers have not cut me off but never reach out or visit. When we visit them, they seem excited to see us and are welcoming but there's no real effort to maintain those relationships. And it is similar with my DH's brother -- we visit him when we visit MIL and he seems glad to see us but he does nothing to maintain or further those relationships. He's never had us over to his house. With him I speculate it is partly because he's never married and he doesn't have the skills for that kind of thing, but my brothers are both married with kids and I have good relationships with my SILs, but still there's no effort from my brothers. One of my SILs I exchange regular emails and texts with and the other we keep track of each other on social media and send holiday cards and kid's birthday cards. But neither of my brother's ever acknowledges my birthday or my kids birthdays and never initiates contact with me, ever.

I just wonder what changed. A lot of the same issues are present by where my parents and grandparents managed to work through them to maintain family ties, my generation just isn't. I now wonder if I will ever see my siblings after my parents pass -- if things continue as they are, I will only see them if I do all the work to make it happen. It's sad.

Transience.

No one lives in the same town as their family members anymore.

My parents were estranged from theirs in the 70s. Long distance was the excuse, but not the reason.

My DH’s older extended family looks to outsiders to be close, but they actively avoid each other plenty.

Biggest difference in younger generation?

Self-absorption.

If children are raised to believe that their feelings and wishes are paramount to anyone else's then you wind up in situations like yours OP. That includes school and social systems that evolved into the "give everyone an award" mindset. Every kid is special.

That wasn't the case not so long ago. From important things to small things.

This situation has been percolating and was predicted. Read "The Narcissism Epidemic. Living in The Age of Entitlement" by Twenge. You will find she was spot-on.

DH and I were talking the other night about how both of our families have dysfunction going back at least several generations, but how differently it impacts people today compared to 50 years ago, and how differently people feel and think about it.

The dysfunction in question is lots of alcohol abuse in both families, mental health issues that largely went undiagnosed, plus trauma -- lot of abuse against kids when they were young (not just spanking but like kids being beaten up by parents and siblings), plus societal traumas like the Great Depression, WWII, and the act of immigrating with no money and to a country where they faced a lot of discrimination.

But there are these stark differences between how our parents' and grandparents' generations handled those issues, and how our generation is handling it.

Our grandparents and parents all stayed very close with their siblings, even the ones with serious issues (like serious alcoholism or mental health issues) and continued to maintain those relationships throughout their entire lives. Our parents still talk to or see their living siblings at least once a week even now in their 70s and 80s. And it's not just about proximity -- my parents live very far from all but one of my dad's siblings and they bridge that gap. My mom visits her sisters on opposite sides of the country at least once a year. My dad visits his brothers all over the country regularly. My MIL is in poor health but maintains relationships with all 5 of her living siblings even the ones who live several states away, by phone and occasional visits. They have their differences but their approach is that family is family and they never cut each other out.

Our generation is a different story. I have a sister who has all but cut off all ties with much of our family. She will take my calls but barely communicates and never reach out. My brothers have not cut me off but never reach out or visit. When we visit them, they seem excited to see us and are welcoming but there's no real effort to maintain those relationships. And it is similar with my DH's brother -- we visit him when we visit MIL and he seems glad to see us but he does nothing to maintain or further those relationships. He's never had us over to his house. With him I speculate it is partly because he's never married and he doesn't have the skills for that kind of thing, but my brothers are both married with kids and I have good relationships with my SILs, but still there's no effort from my brothers. One of my SILs I exchange regular emails and texts with and the other we keep track of each other on social media and send holiday cards and kid's birthday cards. But neither of my brother's ever acknowledges my birthday or my kids birthdays and never initiates contact with me, ever.

I just wonder what changed. A lot of the same issues are present by where my parents and grandparents managed to work through them to maintain family ties, my generation just isn't. I now wonder if I will ever see my siblings after my parents pass -- if things continue as they are, I will only see them if I do all the work to make it happen. It's sad.