John Francis is in my view an okay/viable option. Stay. Lottery for Latins for 5th (do not have to go), not a huge fan of Basis but it goes deep into its waitlist for 5th grade, lottery for Hardy for 6th (you would need a good number there are usually some spots). There are also some other options you can open house and add to your lottery bingo card for 6th that are not clearly any better but different in some respects than John Francis that you could also compare as an alternative choice to your as of right access to John Francis. Are you sure you wont be sent to the new Euclid Middle School - that will probably also be decent but its an unknown.

Why not lottery every year? You can always turn down a spot

I'll echo what the PP said about the feeder spots -- I know many people (including us) who were offered a spot to H-A for K, 1st and 2nd, but chances goes way down after that. In fact -- I have a friends whose 1st grader got in, which brought the sibling to spor #1 for 4th grade, but the sibling never got in, so I'm assuming the wait-list didn't move at all and they didn't take anyone. Same story with another sibling in the 5th grade... Stayed at the #1 spot but never got in.

All that to say, if you want to go to H-A (and have Hardy and MacArthur as options), you actually should decide in early elementary.

Follow up to the above - the 33 currently goes basically door to door from CityCenter to H-A and Hardy. I think the new proposed bus lines have a similar route, too. You may still want to drive your kid in elementary, but getting to Hardy on their own in middle would be as easy as to Francis, if maybe 8-10 minutes longer.

We are at H-A from a neighborhood adjacent to where I think yours is, and the commute was my worst worry. It hasn't been that bad! It's more planning for meals and household stuff to make up for the lost time each day, but I actually look forward to our commute where I get more uninterrupted chatting time than before. Max 20 minutes in the morning, and 30 in the afternoon. If you're wehere I think you are (Thomson catchment?) it may actually be less for you and maybe a bus options. I lived on 11th Street NW and used the G2 a lot to go to Georgetown - it would drop you right by H-A and close enough to Hardy.

Few of the other WOTP elementaries were really on my list because they were just that much harder to get to during rush hour, though I did look at Francis and had that on our lottery as a backup in case our IB experience got worse enough that just getting out became a priority. I honestly preferred H-A over the schools I toured and where talked with parents - the other Hardy feeders were Stoddert and Key - because I felt out of place at those schools a little bit, I think because they are so majority IB.

Anyway, what I decided in the end was we'd take the seat and give it the year to decide if commuting was for us and if the school was that much better than the IB and if DD was making friends that might last to and through middle school. Having an IB that we felt okay about, including an okay middle, gave us a safety net if the new school didn't work out. We could even pull her mid year if needed, the IB would have to take us back. Not ideal since DD is not the most flexible kid, but it felt safe enough to try.

Now that we are at H-A (and its not perfect but overall really great and worth the commute in it's own right) we are committed to staying and we like how we can visualize multiple pathways from here. If DD wants to go to Basis we could apply (though it would mean being okay with HS there - giving up feeder rights if we left Hyde for 5th grade), and still have Hardy if we didn't have lottery luck. She could try for Walls or Banneker from Hardy, but still have McArthur as a backup. We are far enough from HS that I am really optimistic that McArthur will shine by the time DD is in 9th. Hardy and McArthur are also much smaller than Deal/JR, which is great in my opinion.

I think you'll be fine either way, but remember that lottery seats go way down after 2nd for all of the Hardy and Deal feeders, including H-A.

Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it just depends on your risk tolerance. If you're interested in Latin and BASIS, it seems silly to go to a Ward 3 feeder and then leave it. You could stay where you are through 4th grade and lottery there for 5th. Chances aren't great at Latin and BASIS, but out the rest of your list with Ward 3 schools and you'll probably get something. If not, you can do 5th at your current school and go to Francis.

If you're not interested in Latin and BASIS, then it's a different story and I would pick what Ward 3 schools you actually like and can commute to, and start lotterying for them now.

Will it be Francis through 8th for your kid, or Francis and then Euclid St?

Good question. My kid will be at Francis the whole time.

I am intrigued especially by Latin, but yes, location is hard from where we are, though Cooper is easier than H-A or Ward 3!

Basis would be a relatively easy commute, but I would need to be pretty convinced it was right the choice for my particular kid. I think it's just too soon to tell.

It's true that it would be dumb to do the annoying commute for years to Georgetown or Ward 3 and then not take advantage of the feeders. But I don't think we're likely enough to get into either Basis or Latin that I'd factor them in. Chances seem pretty low at both for an only child.

It's not really that unlikely to get into BASIS. Use this: https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/aaron2446/viz/MSDCSeatsandWaitlistOfferData_draft/MSDCPublicDisplay
As a non-sibling, assuming you aren't qualified for Equitable Access, they let in 30 siblings and 108 no-preference kids and waitlisted 235 kids, then they made 98 waitlist offers, which you can assume are almost entirely no-preference. 108+98=206. Over 108+253 (the total admitted or waitlisted)=60%. Not great but not terrible.

At Latin Cooper, 45 no-preference kids and a wait-list of 338, then 41 offers. So a total of 86 no-preference kids got offers. Over 45+338=22%. It's not very likely but it's certainly not crazy to think it could happen. And then you have some small chance at 2nd St as well. And remember, eventually your kid may be commuting on his own, you won't have to do it.

The strategy if you think you might like BASIS or Latin is to stay where you are through 4th, playing the lottery for Latin, BASIS, and Ward 3 elementary schools which you would attend for 5th grade, then go to Deal for 6th. If you strike out in 5th, you can still go to Francis for 6th and then figure out your strategy from there.

Anonymous wrote:I think it just depends on your risk tolerance. If you're interested in Latin and BASIS, it seems silly to go to a Ward 3 feeder and then leave it. You could stay where you are through 4th grade and lottery there for 5th. Chances aren't great at Latin and BASIS, but out the rest of your list with Ward 3 schools and you'll probably get something. If not, you can do 5th at your current school and go to Francis.

If you're not interested in Latin and BASIS, then it's a different story and I would pick what Ward 3 schools you actually like and can commute to, and start lotterying for them now.

Will it be Francis through 8th for your kid, or Francis and then Euclid St?

Good question. My kid will be at Francis the whole time.

I am intrigued especially by Latin, but yes, location is hard from where we are, though Cooper is easier than H-A or Ward 3!

Basis would be a relatively easy commute, but I would need to be pretty convinced it was right the choice for my particular kid. I think it's just too soon to tell.

It's true that it would be dumb to do the annoying commute for years to Georgetown or Ward 3 and then not take advantage of the feeders. But I don't think we're likely enough to get into either Basis or Latin that I'd factor them in. Chances seem pretty low at both for an only child.

Start lotterying now unless you are actually confident in your current middle school pathway. If so, great. If you have reservations, know that lottery luck is not ever guaranteed and even less so without sibling preference.

echoing the poster above, for 5th grade lottery for BASIS, it is a walkable commute for you at CityCenter. Latin is farther away, so I wouldn't bother. If you don't get in, go to Stevens and try for application high schools later

I think it just depends on your risk tolerance. If you're interested in Latin and BASIS, it seems silly to go to a Ward 3 feeder and then leave it. You could stay where you are through 4th grade and lottery there for 5th. Chances aren't great at Latin and BASIS, but out the rest of your list with Ward 3 schools and you'll probably get something. If not, you can do 5th at your current school and go to Francis.

If you're not interested in Latin and BASIS, then it's a different story and I would pick what Ward 3 schools you actually like and can commute to, and start lotterying for them now.

Will it be Francis through 8th for your kid, or Francis and then Euclid St?

Anonymous wrote:If I were you, my plan would be Francis Stephen’s then an application high school. And I would be keeping a careful eye out for the following things:

1) Signs that your elementary won’t meet your need through 5th.

2) Signs of issues at Francis Stephen’s.

3) Signs that your child (for whatever reason) wouldn’t get into McKinley Tech for HS. Sure, everyone is shooting for Walls or Banneker or Ellington, but McKinley is a solid safety school right now, IMHO.

In your case, I would only lottery before 5th if one of those things changes.

Additionally - I’d probably spend some time in 4th grade looking at other middle school choices and potentially lottery for 5th and/or 6th. It’s possible Basis or DCI or something might be a good fit for your kid and you might want to give it a shot - but with a solid middle school feeder option, I wouldn’t be upending your life in elementary school with lottery stress every year and a potential long commute. Not worth it.

This is more or less my family's approach but I would also watch how the MacArthur lottery plays out over the next few years. Maybe a non-application HS option? For now pretty much everyone eventually has gotten a spot off the waitlist.

Some people are really, really risk averse. Personally I'm just not willing to sacrifice that much of my family's time to start commuting to a Ward 3 school so early on in elementary. But I'm also not going into late elementary/middle/high blind; I'm keeping an eye on lottery results/school test scores/my child's aptitude/needs so that we're ready to pivot if need be.

Do some research into the differences between Francis and Hardy/Deal. It isn't just demographics, the differences are actually curricular (and are kind of significant.) The actual math/science/language options are different.


Go on an open house and see for yourself, and ask very specific questions about, say, what the math pathway is (Francis offers up to Algebra by 8th, Hardy offers Algebra in 7th and Geometry in 8th, Deal offers that plus a hyper accelerated option), what they actually learn in science -- Do they have science labs? Do they have an honors English option? etc.

I, too, was at a Francis feeder and thought it would be a great option, but when I did my homework, it seemed to actually offer much less than Deal or Hardy (or BASIS or Latin).

If I were you, my plan would be Francis Stephen’s then an application high school. And I would be keeping a careful eye out for the following things:

1) Signs that your elementary won’t meet your need through 5th.

2) Signs of issues at Francis Stephen’s.

3) Signs that your child (for whatever reason) wouldn’t get into McKinley Tech for HS. Sure, everyone is shooting for Walls or Banneker or Ellington, but McKinley is a solid safety school right now, IMHO.

In your case, I would only lottery before 5th if one of those things changes.

Additionally - I’d probably spend some time in 4th grade looking at other middle school choices and potentially lottery for 5th and/or 6th. It’s possible Basis or DCI or something might be a good fit for your kid and you might want to give it a shot - but with a solid middle school feeder option, I wouldn’t be upending your life in elementary school with lottery stress every year and a potential long commute. Not worth it.

Yes, I would start lotterying now. Life comes at you fast. My kids were babies yesterday and now they're in 8th and it's so bittersweet.

I think "better" is a pretty nuanced thing when discussing middle school. Try to really focus on what's best for your specific individual child. And that can be hard to tell with a 1st grader or whatever.

I certainly think Francis is good *enough* for the average or slightly above-average student. It doesn't have the breadth of offerings that Deal has of course. But a huge school like Deal comes with other down sides.

Bottom line, for your situation maybe figure out which Ward 3 schools are the easiest to commute to and lottery just for those. And don't forget to check the renovation schedule.

I know others have posted this question before...but here goes...Have child in early elementary school. We live in center city and are having a great experience so far at our in-boundary, a well-run, Title I DCPS which gets praise on DCUM (when it is mentioned here, which is rare). School has iffy test scores and a high-poverty population, but strong leadership and teaching staff. For my child's year, it will feed John Francis Education Campus Middle, which I toured for elementary and really liked, though I wonder how the transition with the new middle opening will work.

My question: You only get so many chances in the lottery, especially with an only child. Should we lottery as often as possible to get into a Ward 3 school or H-A so that we can get into a better feeder pattern, even knowing that it would mean a long, annoying commute for many years, for not neccesarily a better elementary and middle experience?

Are those Ward 3 elementary schools and H-A - and Hardy and Deal - so much better than the city center title I's/Francis middle that making the transfer is worth it for its own sake? The test scores would say yes, though it's hard to separate out how much of that is just demographics.

Our other option: Stay at our Title I through 5, then do Francis, and cross our fingers for an application high school while saving for private as a back-up. Obviously, we can take that plan year by year. If our school - or later on, Francis - stops working for our kid, we will lottery. But wondering how proactive we should be when all is currently well, but we know that we can't stay in this pyrimad forever - the high school is a no-go.

I'm inclined to stick where we are, but curious for your thoughts.