If he is not willing to actively engage in seeking and engaging in therapy and medications to improve this situation, then I view that as a form of abuse after a certain amount of time.

What a dumb rule, no divorce unless cheating or abuse. This is an adult marriage, not a high school relationship. There are other valid reasons one could be miserable or unhappy, or incompatible within a marriage. Nobody wants to put their kids through a divorce, but being unhappy and miserable in a marriage is no way to live. Not to mention, you don’t want to teach your children that it’s ok to remain in a toxic relationship.

You laid out your options, only you can know what will be best for you and your child.

Just divorce. I’m truly not quick to say that, but there is no way you can manage a life in any livable way with someone with bpd (or even someone who doesn’t have it but has enough of the behavior to cause his therapist to mention it).

This is my marriage except the diagnosis is ADHD (he won't bother treating at this point), one kid has autism, and we have an added complicating layer of foreign service lifestyle. The short of it is that I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt so I can have peace of mind.

I put my efforts to ensuring that "my cup is filled", my coparenting burden is shared through my mostly female social network, and he and I make time to be fun/friends together. So far I have managed to stave off resentment by hiring help and frankly putting myself first wherever possible - mid-day naps, my money is my money even if means we live "less", and work travel. It is easier because my kids are slightly older (8 and 10), so if I blow off bedtime one night, the world does not end. I would say most of your misery is just the kids ages.

Overall we live "a lesser life" and not one that resembles what I thought I'd have at this age. A real low point was hiring out someone to teach our kids to ride bikes because he absolutely abdicated any interest/responsibility on this, zoning out on video games while paid coaches cheered our kids on with me. Having grown up with a dad exactly like this, brilliant and high earning but stressed and unavailable, I really really invest in my village. My uncles taught me to ride bikes, my neighbors shared the carpool, etc., I think that's right, honestly. It's too much pressure for 2 people.

I've now come to see the video games as his social and processing time, and as long as he's putting in 8-10 hour work days at a super stressful job, okay. He's incapable of any more.

I've done a lot of reading on what relationships really are, what I need, what he needs, and I'd recommend doing the same. Harriet Lerner's The Dance of Intimacy changed my entire outlook. But I also learned a lot about how to "work" with men in The Truth About Cheating by M. Gary Neuman. Do I love my spouse? Sure. Would I be fine without him? You betcha. But I'm not interested in anyone else, or looking for anyone else, so if we're in these rough years of childrearing together (with his role being provider, and I truly let him take that mental stress on solo because I'm carrying the "are the kids okay" stress solo) then we may as well be buddies in the trenches.

I also got separate everything - comforters, towels, bathroom. Good luck. Things change. Take it one day at a time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change the illness from mental health to say something like MS. What would do if his illness physically prevented him from helping around the house or if he chose not to attend PT?

It’s not. Too many people with mental illness are simply malingering.

OP, I would try to hire help until you are ready to leave. It doesn’t sound like you want to spend the rest of your life with this person and I wouldn’t either.

When would you leave (I know thats kind of an impossible question to answer with so little information). I know in general divorce is better when kids are young - but I can't imagine leaving a 3 and 5 year old alone with him especially overnight when he has absolutely no patience. They may or may not be well cared for (depending on his mental state) and wouldn't be able to understand any sort of conversation about his mental health causing some behaviors versus it being their fault (like when he has mumbled things loud enough for them to hear that "this f-ing family is a miserable hell hole"). I do believe he WANTS to be a loving dad (versus just a raging a-hole) but is unable to be with his combo of mental illnesses and unwilling to do the work to get them under control enough that he can manage stressful situations with them.

As long as we are married, he's basically never alone with them. When I go out, I hire a sitter which i think he feels some shame about but doesn't fight. He can join in for pleasant moments and check out of the rest. The kids do love him and have fun with him but don't depend on him in any way.

" I could see him doing anything from fighting for 50% (even though he travels 80% and plays no dependable day to day role in their lives now) to walking away from them and basically never seeing them again - both would be horrible for the kids."

So he's barely in the kids life now. He does almost nothing with them, for them, or with you, or for you. How would he get 50% if he travels 80% of the time? It would be better for the kids if he saw them every other weekend but was ENGAGED, alert, happy, caring.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change the illness from mental health to say something like MS. What would do if his illness physically prevented him from helping around the house or if he chose not to attend PT?

NP and not an apt description. A lot of what she is describing is being rude and thoughtless. People with chronic illnesses are not automatically rude and thoughtless.

OP, I hate to say it, but it sounds like your DH is only nominally in your kids lives now. You should get out.

I'm very sorry that you have no good options here. Virtual hug to you.

If i knew he could/ would be a positive co-parent for whatever custody he got, I would. I'm so jealous of people that can share custody and know their kids are safe and being treated lovingly even if its not exactly how you'd parent. I think the most likely answer is if he was given a story to protect his ego, he'd want something like sat afternoons with the kids and they'd watch sports and eat mcdonalds and cool that's great, i'd love that. But I could also see him wanting more custody to either spite me for divorcing or protect his ego and then doing things like screaming at the kids when they're sick during the night and they're interrupting his sleep or dumping them on his parents most of the time (which would be negative for a lot of reasons) OR feeling so much shame about it all he basically never sees them again. Also for now most all parenting decisions are 100% mine - such as what to do about adhd. If we weren't technically on the same team anymore i can see every decision becoming a hugely emotional battle with him digging into un-thought out stances. Again I don't want every decision to be 100% mine - I want a partner to talk through things logically with and get to the best answer - but that's not the partner i have

Anonymous wrote:Change the illness from mental health to say something like MS. What would do if his illness physically prevented him from helping around the house or if he chose not to attend PT?

NP and not an apt description. A lot of what she is describing is being rude and thoughtless. People with chronic illnesses are not automatically rude and thoughtless.

OP, I hate to say it, but it sounds like your DH is only nominally in your kids lives now. You should get out.

I'm very sorry that you have no good options here. Virtual hug to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change the illness from mental health to say something like MS. What would do if his illness physically prevented him from helping around the house or if he chose not to attend PT?

It’s not. Too many people with mental illness are simply malingering.

OP, I would try to hire help until you are ready to leave. It doesn’t sound like you want to spend the rest of your life with this person and I wouldn’t either.

+1

Anonymous wrote:Change the illness from mental health to say something like MS. What would do if his illness physically prevented him from helping around the house or if he chose not to attend PT?

It’s not. Too many people with mental illness are simply malingering.

OP, I would try to hire help until you are ready to leave. It doesn’t sound like you want to spend the rest of your life with this person and I wouldn’t either.

Anonymous wrote:Change the illness from mental health to say something like MS. What would do if his illness physically prevented him from helping around the house or if he chose not to attend PT?

I think it'd depend if he was trying his best how angry i'd be about it. If ihe wasn't, then it'd be a similar question I think - if he wasn't doing what he was to care for himself and minimize the negative impact for our family....then would i divorce? i don't know.

Anonymous wrote:How much do you guys make? My DH is helpful but very busy with work (and it's usually from home, so I know it's actual work). I hire out a lot of help, from chef-prepared weekly meals that I have to heat up to grocery delivery, to all of the house cleaning and laundry other than DH and my laundry, and I have an after-school nanny/driver who helps me juggle shuttling the kids to their activities and with other small household tasks. It's still a lot of work to manage the help on top of a job, and I'm still the default parent if someone gets sick, but it's better than the situation you describe. And at least your DH makes more than you - that should help with some of your resentment.

We do hire out a lot and it definitely helps - my rage would be through the roof if not. But I only want to co-parent with a nanny so much, its not just the physical labor - its that any parent time the kids get has to come from me while he plays video games or watches football for hours on the weekends, that his unable or unwilling to talk through what to do about our kids adhd diagnosis and unwilling to participate in a parenting class to learn strategies to manage it because he's so "overwhelmed", that I have no dependable back-up partner if I'm feeling really sick one day and just need someone else to do bedtime etc. I think the core of it is that I feel like I'm raising our kids entirely on my own without a dependable partner for any aspect of it other than paying the bills....which is a real and important thing but not the only thing kids need. And also that he hides behind mental health as an excuse when he does things like leave wet towels on my side of the bed or dirty laundry all over our bedroom which is also my office! (he has his own office in our house...i cant imagine what he'd do if i walked into it and left my trash and laundry around it)

Change the illness from mental health to say something like MS. What would do if his illness physically prevented him from helping around the house or if he chose not to attend PT?

How much do you guys make? My DH is helpful but very busy with work (and it's usually from home, so I know it's actual work). I hire out a lot of help, from chef-prepared weekly meals that I have to heat up to grocery delivery, to all of the house cleaning and laundry other than DH and my laundry, and I have an after-school nanny/driver who helps me juggle shuttling the kids to their activities and with other small household tasks. It's still a lot of work to manage the help on top of a job, and I'm still the default parent if someone gets sick, but it's better than the situation you describe. And at least your DH makes more than you - that should help with some of your resentment.

DH has several mental health issues (some diagnosed, some suspected by therapist but not officially Dx (namely BPD) - he engages mildly in therapy but doesn't put in the actual work to change. Take as a given that the way he is no is the way he's going to be for the foreseeable and there is no "asking" or "insisting" on change. His mental health got much worse with kids (who are 3 and 5) - obviously there were flags but I was not knowingly signing up for this

DH will not take responsibility for ANYTHING domestic related (house or kids). Its not that he does nothing - some days he'll clean the whole kitchen or decide to take a kid to an activity - but its only on his terms. He would never follow through with an agreement to cook dinner every sat night or do monday school drop offs or regularly participate in bedtimes. He also leaves his trash and laundry around - he'd get it cleaned up eventually but I can't wait that long for it and it drives me crazy. I also don't want to role model that for our kids and have them also just leaving their trash and things around. When I push for things he either agrees and doesn't follow through or verbally lashes out using his mental health as a cover (eg "how can you expect me to care about my trash when i'm struggling to get out of bed some days"....but said on a day he's not in a deep depression struggling to get out of bed).

We both work - he works more and makes more than I do but I would fully support him changing careers / making less if he wanted (he does not want to). He doesn't work much on weekends and doesn't pick up his share then either.

I see my options as 1) fully capitulate and accept i'm responsible for 100% and even need to pick up after him if I don't want to live with his trash around and somehow make peace with that, 2) bang my head against the wall continually asking for changes i won't get, or 3) divorce. I do worry a lot about all scenarios of divorce in terms of the impact on the kids - if I thought he was a guy who would magically get it together when divorced and be able to safely care for kids that would be the obvious answer, but unfortunately I don't think that'd be the case. I could see him doing anything from fighting for 50% (even though he travels 80% and plays no dependable day to day role in their lives now) to walking away from them and basically never seeing them again - both would be horrible for the kids.

I hate the idea of divorce and putting my kids through that. I also hate them seeing this marriage and division of labor. I know many many would say just divorce, i'm specifically curious what though with a very high bar for divorce would do in this situation.