Short answer: it is disadvantageous for the faster swimmers.

It very much helps slower swimmers.

Anonymous wrote:Why would a meet take the top 3 swimmers from 3 different prelim heats, ignoring their actual times in prelims?

That’s what track does. Not swimming, thank goodness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids say they have no idea where the other kids are in relation to them, except occasionally when a kid in the next lane over is well ahead or well behind. If they are in lane 7, they have no idea whether they are ahead or behind of anyone in lanes 1-5.

That is funny. Once my kids hit 11-12, they tend to know where everyone is in relation to them, as long as you are not talking a 50. It amazes me.

How do they know? You can't see that far over when you are in the water.

Anonymous wrote:The goal isn’t for the fastest swimmers to get their best times in the prelims, the goal is to make sure that the fastest swimmers make the finals. If you take, for example, the top 3 swimmers from each prelim to move on to the finals and the prelims aren’t circle seeded you end up with slower kids moving on to the final.

It is based on time for making finals.

Anonymous wrote:My kids say they have no idea where the other kids are in relation to them, except occasionally when a kid in the next lane over is well ahead or well behind. If they are in lane 7, they have no idea whether they are ahead or behind of anyone in lanes 1-5.

That is funny. Once my kids hit 11-12, they tend to know where everyone is in relation to them, as long as you are not talking a 50. It amazes me.

Anonymous wrote:

So I get that this is done at championship meets (all of them?) but looking at some of the Winter Classic events in Meet Mobile it seems to do a disservice to some of the swimmers. There are some events where the top 2 swimmers are so much faster than their peers and they are split up in the last two heats. Meaning that every one in their heat is significantly slower. How does that push them to get a faster time?

Looking for the experts to help me out.

its swim rule 102.5- circle seeding of the fastest 3 heats when it is a prelim finals meet. It isn't designed to get the top fastest 2 swimmers to get their 'fastest' time- its designed to give everyone a good shot at making finals. If it is seeded as 'typical' with the 9 fastest kid in the last heat- kid number 10, who might just be .01 seconds slower than kid 9, is seriously disadvantaged by being in a different heat. With circle seeding all 27 top swimmers have a decent shot at making finals- in terms of who is swimming beside them to push them. (I'm using a 9 lane pool example here). In terms of the top two kids not getting their best times in prelims- it just doesn't matter- they are still going to make finals, swim against each other, and get the push they need to get their fasted time.

Anonymous wrote:The goal isn’t for the fastest swimmers to get their best times in the prelims, the goal is to make sure that the fastest swimmers make the finals. If you take, for example, the top 3 swimmers from each prelim to move on to the finals and the prelims aren’t circle seeded you end up with slower kids moving on to the final.

Finals is based on times not on place…

Why would a meet take the top 3 swimmers from 3 different prelim heats, ignoring their actual times in prelims?

The goal isn’t for the fastest swimmers to get their best times in the prelims, the goal is to make sure that the fastest swimmers make the finals. If you take, for example, the top 3 swimmers from each prelim to move on to the finals and the prelims aren’t circle seeded you end up with slower kids moving on to the final.

My kids say they have no idea where the other kids are in relation to them, except occasionally when a kid in the next lane over is well ahead or well behind. If they are in lane 7, they have no idea whether they are ahead or behind of anyone in lanes 1-5.

Anonymous wrote:It is not designed to help the slower swimmers. It is not really designed to help the fastest 3 swimmers, either. It is designed to help the top group (approximately seeds 9-24) advance to finals by having them swim in fast heats against faster swimmers. The top 3 seeds would probably prefer more competition in their heats.

It is also designed to create some suspense between prelims and finals.

Adding that it’s also designed to confuse the hell out of newer swimmers/parents. Many a swimmer has missed their heat because after mistakenly relying on the assumption that they would be in a later heat than their slower teammate.

Kidding aside, circle seeding works best when there is a tight group of the first 24 (or 27 or 30) swimmers, which also occurs more often with older swimmers, and when there are at least 5+ heats. It does not work well when there is a wide range of times among the fastest 3 heats, or when there are just a few heats. It also makes the meet longer because the slowest 3 swimmers of the top 24 are distributed among the 3 heats.

Anonymous wrote:It is not designed to help the slower swimmers. It is not really designed to help the fastest 3 swimmers, either. It is designed to help the top group (approximately seeds 9-24) advance to finals by having them swim in fast heats against faster swimmers. The top 3 seeds would probably prefer more competition in their heats.

It is also designed to create some suspense between prelims and finals.

This it does, because many think that finals will be the last two heats but it will be swimmers from the last three heats generally making it in. So the suspense is there. You also have many swimmers in the last heat, thinking that they finaled and they did not.

I think the purpose is to give the fastest swimmers desirable lane position (and therefore the most level playing field in prelims) but agree that in a meet like this, it’s a disservice to many of the swimmers.

It is not designed to help the slower swimmers. It is not really designed to help the fastest 3 swimmers, either. It is designed to help the top group (approximately seeds 9-24) advance to finals by having them swim in fast heats against faster swimmers. The top 3 seeds would probably prefer more competition in their heats.

It is also designed to create some suspense between prelims and finals.

So I get that this is done at championship meets (all of them?) but looking at some of the Winter Classic events in Meet Mobile it seems to do a disservice to some of the swimmers. There are some events where the top 2 swimmers are so much faster than their peers and they are split up in the last two heats. Meaning that every one in their heat is significantly slower. How does that push them to get a faster time?

Looking for the experts to help me out.