Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,
I get it. I think a lot of people posting don’t really understand how the German system works. It’s not as if you are doomed to some low-level, unimportant job if you fail to show success in 4th grade.

The school choices and offerings are robust and they make sense. No, not everybody should go to college. And it’s not just because of intellect/ability; society doesn’t need everybody to go to college.

German vocational programs are robust, and they lead to very important jobs that provide for stable living. Their on-the-job apprenticeships set students up for success in a way we don’t.

My issue with the German system is that the tracking decisions are made very early. One of things I love about America is that we keep the educational doors open and embrace reinvention.

The tracking system makes sure everyone has a productive place in society. While that can feel constricting for some, some people really need that structure (as we can see with the swelling homeless numbers here).
Some of my European friends are so flummoxed by the idea of "going off the grid" and can't believe there are people in, say, Utah, who can get by with multiple wives and families in trailers unchecked and their violent attitude about being governed. For the Europeans, they grew up in a cradle-to-grave society and the open lawless areas of the American west is fascinating. I have friend who was an American ex-pat in Germany for a few years and had her baby there. She was surprised that the government sent some post-partum doula type woman to check on her and the baby a few times soon after birth to make sure the family had everything they needed, that baby was well and to provide info on local resources for them. Imagine that!

Anonymous wrote:Different schools for those on a university path vs a vocational path. Of course that can’t happen here due to equity . But you have to admit German schools produce much better results .

Many are already doing this, including ours.

The boe cut an auto trade program this year.

Anonymous wrote:OP,
I get it. I think a lot of people posting don’t really understand how the German system works. It’s not as if you are doomed to some low-level, unimportant job if you fail to show success in 4th grade.

The school choices and offerings are robust and they make sense. No, not everybody should go to college. And it’s not just because of intellect/ability; society doesn’t need everybody to go to college.

German vocational programs are robust, and they lead to very important jobs that provide for stable living. Their on-the-job apprenticeships set students up for success in a way we don’t.

My issue with the German system is that the tracking decisions are made very early. One of things I love about America is that we keep the educational doors open and embrace reinvention.

I agree OP. Until the 1970s there was a similar system in the UK

Private schools
Grammar Schools
Comprehensive schools

for exactly this purpose - send the academics to university and the non-academics to trade and vocational colleges

Anonymous wrote:Different schools for those on a university path vs a vocational path. Of course that can’t happen here due to equity . But you have to admit German schools produce much better results .

Do they?

Anonymous wrote:OP,
I get it. I think a lot of people posting don’t really understand how the German system works. It’s not as if you are doomed to some low-level, unimportant job if you fail to show success in 4th grade.

The school choices and offerings are robust and they make sense. No, not everybody should go to college. And it’s not just because of intellect/ability; society doesn’t need everybody to go to college.

German vocational programs are robust, and they lead to very important jobs that provide for stable living. Their on-the-job apprenticeships set students up for success in a way we don’t.

In Germany, vocational skills are respected unlike here.
Because over there, the graduates of their programs are understood to be thoroughly knowledgeable about their trade. For example, the assumption here is that factory made is cheaper than custom made. Over there, it is the opposite. The factory made is more expensive and very well made because those folks really know what they are doing. And they are very competitively compensated too as the unions are strong there.

Anonymous wrote:OP,
I get it. I think a lot of people posting don’t really understand how the German system works. It’s not as if you are doomed to some low-level, unimportant job if you fail to show success in 4th grade.

The school choices and offerings are robust and they make sense. No, not everybody should go to college. And it’s not just because of intellect/ability; society doesn’t need everybody to go to college.

German vocational programs are robust, and they lead to very important jobs that provide for stable living. Their on-the-job apprenticeships set students up for success in a way we don’t.

I wonder how it works in practice though. Personally, I was a middling student until 8th grade, when something clicked and I became a superstar. Valedictorian, Yale, successful lawyer, blah blah. If you'd tested me in 3rd or 4th grade who knows where I'd have wound up. I didn't even test into the gifted program at my school in 2nd/3rd.

I see the same path in one of my kids.

I am strongly in favor of vocational training but not tracking students at an early age. 9th or 10th grade is soon enough.

Yes the USA should adopt robust CTE programs, but the U.S. should also make meaning investments in education.

That said, MCPS offers a host of CTE programs at Edison and a couple in other schools.

OP,
I get it. I think a lot of people posting don’t really understand how the German system works. It’s not as if you are doomed to some low-level, unimportant job if you fail to show success in 4th grade.

The school choices and offerings are robust and they make sense. No, not everybody should go to college. And it’s not just because of intellect/ability; society doesn’t need everybody to go to college.

German vocational programs are robust, and they lead to very important jobs that provide for stable living. Their on-the-job apprenticeships set students up for success in a way we don’t.

Why do you want your government to think for you? You can send your child to any kind of school you want, college prep or vocational.
American schools are more convenient, offering both in the same building.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different schools for those on a university path vs a vocational path. Of course that can’t happen here due to equity . But you have to admit German schools produce much better results .

How many of us have kids that would be excluded from universities? Would we accept that?

Oh no, I might lose my right to spend $300k on a worthless degree.

Why haven’t you moved to Germany? Do you hate your children?

Anonymous wrote:Different schools for those on a university path vs a vocational path. Of course that can’t happen here due to equity . But you have to admit German schools produce much better results .

How many of us have kids that would be excluded from universities? Would we accept that?

Different schools for those on a university path vs a vocational path. Of course that can’t happen here due to equity . But you have to admit German schools produce much better results .