Because you can't identify advanced learners in 3rd grader. Your child is average. You've known this all along. Let her move to the math that doesn't stress her out. Don't be THAT parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what math will she end with? Work backwards. Calc AB would be ambitious enough. Respectable. I guess no Calc and AP Stats if she's not shooting too high re: colleges.

DD was not selected for AAP but did well in Calc BC, AP Chem. AP Physics C - so some students from the Gen Ed classes end-up kicking some AAP butt!

-sorry, couldn't help myself

As an AAP parent of a middle schooler and elementary schoolers if people don't assume the bolded going into the program, they're delusional. One of my friends who teaches AP Bio chose not to enroll her accepted kid into AAP because she didn't see the point for her particular kid and half her AP Bio kids came from gen ed. AAP was right for my kids (they wanted the math), but I don't think that means my kids will be somehow better than many of their gen ed peers at any subject.

OP here and I totally agree. I’ve seen numerous gen Ed kids far surpass AAP kids, get into TJ, get into “better” colleges etc. But my question is really about AAP kids choosing lower rigor in high school when they mostly seemingly did fine in those rigorous classes until then. If it was just a one off, I would understand, but I know at least 10 former AAP kids who are taking some or all non-honors. (DD is trying to move down and uses that to convince us.) Honors does not seem that rigorous to me.

Am I wrong to make DD push through? She is not losing sleep or not getting enough time for activities and free time because of schoolwork. It just seems lazy to me.

If she had a good reason to drop down, then you would be wrong for making her push through. It doesn't sound like she has a particularly good reason to want the easier class, and at least in math, it's harder to jump back up to the honors track if she finds that the regular class is too easy or too filled with disruptive kids. Tell her that she needs to persuade you, and you're not going to find "other kids have dropped down" or "I just don't feel like it" to be persuasive.

There are a lot of 2E kids in AAP (ADHD and Autism especially) and they get extra support in the AAP class. When it comes to high school they do not offer Team Taught for AP classes and often not for honors classes depending on your school. If the student needs the extra support they are going to have to go to Gen Ed for the team taught class. That is one reason that I know of from friends of kids who had to make that choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what math will she end with? Work backwards. Calc AB would be ambitious enough. Respectable. I guess no Calc and AP Stats if she's not shooting too high re: colleges.

DD was not selected for AAP but did well in Calc BC, AP Chem. AP Physics C - so some students from the Gen Ed classes end-up kicking some AAP butt!

-sorry, couldn't help myself

As an AAP parent of a middle schooler and elementary schoolers if people don't assume the bolded going into the program, they're delusional. One of my friends who teaches AP Bio chose not to enroll her accepted kid into AAP because she didn't see the point for her particular kid and half her AP Bio kids came from gen ed. AAP was right for my kids (they wanted the math), but I don't think that means my kids will be somehow better than many of their gen ed peers at any subject.

Only half? But AAP kids are only 20% of the population. So AAP kids are 4 times as likely as gen ed kids to make it into her AP biology.

(This is the part where I make a snide remake about your intelligence if you can't figure out where the 4x figure comes from)

AP Bio isn't exactly popular, most kids taking it are taking it because they have room in their schedule and it looks good for colleges. If they don't have room, they won't make room for it.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how rigorous Honors classes are. I know one friend has a kid that asked to move from the regular class into honors because the regular class was distracting and a joke. The honors class is probably too much for him, he struggles in it, but the regular class is way too easy. I can see dropping from AP to Honors but I would guess that the regular class at most schools is not a great fit for most kids.

AAP isn’t that rigorous, the Advanced Math portion is about the only part that is challenging for some kids. DS is great at math but not at LA, he is fine but not advanced. He has had no issues in LIV classes in MS, we deferred in ES for a language program. I can see Honors math being hard for kids but I wouldn’t let a B student drop to the regular class, in any subject, because they are having to work to get a B. I would consider a C student dropping and anything lower then a C is an automatic drop down.

This was my student's experience in the one semester of regular math in HS. Most wanted to sit in the back of the room and not pay attention. Older kids who did not care about math or class, performing poorly in the class and not answering questions, or doing problems--low engagement--with younger grade students who likely were concerned about taking honors level. Peers in class matter. Distractions, kids bugging my kid to help them out, talking during class, etc. At least in honors, he was with others who wanted to learn and were focused in class. Sure it was more challenging, but worth it. Just our experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what math will she end with? Work backwards. Calc AB would be ambitious enough. Respectable. I guess no Calc and AP Stats if she's not shooting too high re: colleges.

DD was not selected for AAP but did well in Calc BC, AP Chem. AP Physics C - so some students from the Gen Ed classes end-up kicking some AAP butt!

-sorry, couldn't help myself

As an AAP parent of a middle schooler and elementary schoolers if people don't assume the bolded going into the program, they're delusional. One of my friends who teaches AP Bio chose not to enroll her accepted kid into AAP because she didn't see the point for her particular kid and half her AP Bio kids came from gen ed. AAP was right for my kids (they wanted the math), but I don't think that means my kids will be somehow better than many of their gen ed peers at any subject.

Only half? But AAP kids are only 20% of the population. So AAP kids are 4 times as likely as gen ed kids to make it into her AP biology.

(This is the part where I make a snide remake about your intelligence if you can't figure out where the 4x figure comes from)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what math will she end with? Work backwards. Calc AB would be ambitious enough. Respectable. I guess no Calc and AP Stats if she's not shooting too high re: colleges.

DD was not selected for AAP but did well in Calc BC, AP Chem. AP Physics C - so some students from the Gen Ed classes end-up kicking some AAP butt!

-sorry, couldn't help myself

As an AAP parent of a middle schooler and elementary schoolers if people don't assume the bolded going into the program, they're delusional. One of my friends who teaches AP Bio chose not to enroll her accepted kid into AAP because she didn't see the point for her particular kid and half her AP Bio kids came from gen ed. AAP was right for my kids (they wanted the math), but I don't think that means my kids will be somehow better than many of their gen ed peers at any subject.

OP here and I totally agree. I’ve seen numerous gen Ed kids far surpass AAP kids, get into TJ, get into “better” colleges etc. But my question is really about AAP kids choosing lower rigor in high school when they mostly seemingly did fine in those rigorous classes until then. If it was just a one off, I would understand, but I know at least 10 former AAP kids who are taking some or all non-honors. (DD is trying to move down and uses that to convince us.) Honors does not seem that rigorous to me.

Am I wrong to make DD push through? She is not losing sleep or not getting enough time for activities and free time because of schoolwork. It just seems lazy to me.

If she's got time and still doesn't want to put in the work I would look at why. Laziness is one option, but things like depression and anxiety are others.

I don’t know how rigorous Honors classes are. I know one friend has a kid that asked to move from the regular class into honors because the regular class was distracting and a joke. The honors class is probably too much for him, he struggles in it, but the regular class is way too easy. I can see dropping from AP to Honors but I would guess that the regular class at most schools is not a great fit for most kids.

AAP isn’t that rigorous, the Advanced Math portion is about the only part that is challenging for some kids. DS is great at math but not at LA, he is fine but not advanced. He has had no issues in LIV classes in MS, we deferred in ES for a language program. I can see Honors math being hard for kids but I wouldn’t let a B student drop to the regular class, in any subject, because they are having to work to get a B. I would consider a C student dropping and anything lower then a C is an automatic drop down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what math will she end with? Work backwards. Calc AB would be ambitious enough. Respectable. I guess no Calc and AP Stats if she's not shooting too high re: colleges.

DD was not selected for AAP but did well in Calc BC, AP Chem. AP Physics C - so some students from the Gen Ed classes end-up kicking some AAP butt!

-sorry, couldn't help myself

As an AAP parent of a middle schooler and elementary schoolers if people don't assume the bolded going into the program, they're delusional. One of my friends who teaches AP Bio chose not to enroll her accepted kid into AAP because she didn't see the point for her particular kid and half her AP Bio kids came from gen ed. AAP was right for my kids (they wanted the math), but I don't think that means my kids will be somehow better than many of their gen ed peers at any subject.

OP here and I totally agree. I’ve seen numerous gen Ed kids far surpass AAP kids, get into TJ, get into “better” colleges etc. But my question is really about AAP kids choosing lower rigor in high school when they mostly seemingly did fine in those rigorous classes until then. If it was just a one off, I would understand, but I know at least 10 former AAP kids who are taking some or all non-honors. (DD is trying to move down and uses that to convince us.) Honors does not seem that rigorous to me.

Am I wrong to make DD push through? She is not losing sleep or not getting enough time for activities and free time because of schoolwork. It just seems lazy to me.

Anonymous wrote:OP, what math will she end with? Work backwards. Calc AB would be ambitious enough. Respectable. I guess no Calc and AP Stats if she's not shooting too high re: colleges.

DD was not selected for AAP but did well in Calc BC, AP Chem. AP Physics C - so some students from the Gen Ed classes end-up kicking some AAP butt!

-sorry, couldn't help myself

As an AAP parent of a middle schooler and elementary schoolers if people don't assume the bolded going into the program, they're delusional. One of my friends who teaches AP Bio chose not to enroll her accepted kid into AAP because she didn't see the point for her particular kid and half her AP Bio kids came from gen ed. AAP was right for my kids (they wanted the math), but I don't think that means my kids will be somehow better than many of their gen ed peers at any subject.

OP, what math will she end with? Work backwards. Calc AB would be ambitious enough. Respectable. I guess no Calc and AP Stats if she's not shooting too high re: colleges.

DD was not selected for AAP but did well in Calc BC, AP Chem. AP Physics C - so some students from the Gen Ed classes end-up kicking some AAP butt!

-sorry, couldn't help myself

There are kids who are stronger at LA then Math who end up in LIV in ES and MS. I would guess that many of the LA strong kids do fine with math in ES but most end up in 7th H and not Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. Some because they don’t make the test cut offs and some who do who just don’t love math. I can easily see the LIV kids who do well in 7th H and Algebra 1 H in 8th grade finding that math is getting harder and struggling to maintain that A in math and wanting to move into regular Geometry or Algebra II.

I can see the LIV kid who crushed math not being as strong in LA and struggling with HS Honors/AP/IB language arts and wanting to take the next level down.

I was a kid who took AP History/English in HS and regular math and science. I had LDs that greatly impacted math and science and were less of an issue in LA and Social Studies. It happens.

If your child is struggling to maintain a grade that you or they find acceptable in an H class, is it worth the stress to keep them in honors?

How overloaded in general is she? What math class is she currently taking? What type of major is she considering in college? Is she aiming for an Ivy/Top10/college with low admissions?

If she's already pretty overloaded, then something has to give. Dropping down in math might be an easy way to lighten her load if she'll still take Calculus in high school and if she isn't gunning for a STEM major or elite college.

AAP parent here and a proponent of the program. Just want to set that context since there are a handful of rabid anti-AAP posters (and especially anti-center posters) hanging out here.

Kids change. Their interests change. Their focus and what they put the work in changes. If most girls quit their sport by 13 then why would we not expect that plenty of kids also change their academic interests around that time too?

And AAP takes 20% of FCPS. It does make sense that those 20% will not all want to be on the highest possible math track, which is probably the subject in FCPS with the most possible tracks.

That said, if my kid were an A/A-/B+ student in an honors class I would expect them to stay there and put in the work. But I would look at extenuating circumstances (Is the kid aiming for a high level orchestra? Playing big roles in the school play? On a demanding sports team?) as well.

How hard are honors/AP classes in your opinion? DD is in 10th grade. She was in level 4 AAP in elementary and middle school and did well. Now she has been begging to take regular math rather than honors. We have not given in (and she’s set where she is this year) but as I talk to more parents, I realize that many of her former AAP peers have moved to some regular classes for various subjects.

I don’t want to debate whether AAP is truly a gifted program but they were taking those AAP classes. My DD does need to put in some effort to get As and A-s ; she would get more Bs without that. Am I expecting too much? Or is her friend group just not a high achieving group? I was just very surprised.