Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I expect coaches to know of the rules, but maybe not the nuances. I think this is OK and if there is a question so long as it dealt with politely and professionally that is OK.

This. I am fine with coaches asking for rule clarification.

But judgement calls, no way. The most you can do is go out and politely ask the umpire to check with the other one (assuming there is a home plate and field umpire) to see if they had a better angle. But that's it. But even that has to be done politely.

My DC's AAU coach will occasionally get ejected on purpose arguing a terrible judgment call if he wants to fire up the team. It works more often than not

Glad that works for your kid, but it would not thrill me to see. I want my kids to know their coaches and parents have their back, but in a respectful way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I expect coaches to know of the rules, but maybe not the nuances. I think this is OK and if there is a question so long as it dealt with politely and professionally that is OK.

This. I am fine with coaches asking for rule clarification.

But judgement calls, no way. The most you can do is go out and politely ask the umpire to check with the other one (assuming there is a home plate and field umpire) to see if they had a better angle. But that's it. But even that has to be done politely.

My DC's AAU coach will occasionally get ejected on purpose arguing a terrible judgment call if he wants to fire up the team. It works more often than not

Anonymous wrote:I expect coaches to know of the rules, but maybe not the nuances. I think this is OK and if there is a question so long as it dealt with politely and professionally that is OK.

This. I am fine with coaches asking for rule clarification.

But judgement calls, no way. The most you can do is go out and politely ask the umpire to check with the other one (assuming there is a home plate and field umpire) to see if they had a better angle. But that's it. But even that has to be done politely.

Anonymous wrote:I expect coaches to know of the rules, but maybe not the nuances. I think this is OK and if there is a question so long as it dealt with politely and professionally that is OK.

This. Last weekend one of my kids played a game that was decided on an iffy call that had some parents up in arms. Coaches and refs had a polite conversation about it after the match, nuance was explained and it was dealt with respectfully.

Anonymous wrote:Longtime baseball mom and my kids’ coaches have always seemed to either (a) know the rules or if needed (b) politely accept the umpire’s explanation of a rule the coach was unaware of

Which is fine with me. Often different tournaments or leagues have slightly different rules- for things like what bats are allowed (in youth games), drop dead game times or cutoff time to start new innings, mercy rules, pitch limits etc.

I have no patience for coaches or parents arguing with officials and would pull my kid off a team if that was happening with any regularity.

Softball mom here and this.

I expect coaches to know of the rules, but maybe not the nuances. I think this is OK and if there is a question so long as it dealt with politely and professionally that is OK.

Anonymous wrote:Don't know about baseball, but I have noticed in basketball I and many of the coaches don't quite understand all of the nuances of the rules, probably most of the referees don't either. I tried to teach my daughter the Euro step, a couple of coaches have called it a travel already. I had to find videos explaining the gather step.

I also recall as a player having limited understanding of the rules on occasion when I was called on to handle the ball. The thing is kids get put in positions, I played post, the nuances of reaching in and hand checking, dribbling the ball for five seconds etc. just aren't relevant. I needed to understand over the back, lane violations and going clean blocks etc.

It would be nice if some of the AAU travel teams had some training on that.

So do most youth refs

My kids soccer coach used to ref college, so I'd assume they know the rules. Basketball, it's possible that the coach reads the tournament and age group specific rules and knows more than the ref

Don't know about baseball, but I have noticed in basketball I and many of the coaches don't quite understand all of the nuances of the rules, probably most of the referees don't either. I tried to teach my daughter the Euro step, a couple of coaches have called it a travel already. I had to find videos explaining the gather step.

I also recall as a player having limited understanding of the rules on occasion when I was called on to handle the ball. The thing is kids get put in positions, I played post, the nuances of reaching in and hand checking, dribbling the ball for five seconds etc. just aren't relevant. I needed to understand over the back, lane violations and going clean blocks etc.

It would be nice if some of the AAU travel teams had some training on that.

Longtime baseball mom and my kids’ coaches have always seemed to either (a) know the rules or if needed (b) politely accept the umpire’s explanation of a rule the coach was unaware of

Which is fine with me. Often different tournaments or leagues have slightly different rules- for things like what bats are allowed (in youth games), drop dead game times or cutoff time to start new innings, mercy rules, pitch limits etc.

I have no patience for coaches or parents arguing with officials and would pull my kid off a team if that was happening with any regularity.

My gosh, I'm not even an ump (I am a softball coach, but just a baseball Dad) but if I have to talk another Dad off the ledge about the difference between interference and obstruction at one of my son's baseball games, I might lose my mind.

Or the concept of "blocking the plate" My god, they thing they know it because they watched MLB back in the 90s (well, rules are different now, especially at the youth level)

or at the younger levels when I tell them, it doesnt even matter, because you have to slide into home plate, per tournament rules, and our runner didn't (or they slid head first), so they are automatically out.

Yeah, only little kid machine pitch. He was only 16 and at one point literally stepped in between two coaches arguing heatedly about whether one had made an illegal substitution. He was horrified. It’s made for a good college application essay, but it was appalling.

The heckling etc was generally not about his calls but about not controlling the game more tightly. If a kid ran the wrong way or sat down on second base or whatever he’d leave it to coaches to manage. Not sure what expectations of him were, but he flatly refused to humiliate or yell at kids.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a long time baseball mom, and I never assume I know the rules! Baseball is a weird sport.

My son trained as a youth umpire and he was taught to have the rule book on his phone and if a coach disputed his call to just calmly pull out the rule and show the coach. He never had to, but that was because he only umped half a dozen games - the coaches’ chirping and the parent heckling was too much and he quit.

OP here. That's despicable. I'm assuming he only did the youngest players' games. Those youth umpires deserve a LOT more grace. I'm sorry he had that experience.

I’m a long time baseball mom, and I never assume I know the rules! Baseball is a weird sport.

My son trained as a youth umpire and he was taught to have the rule book on his phone and if a coach disputed his call to just calmly pull out the rule and show the coach. He never had to, but that was because he only umped half a dozen games - the coaches’ chirping and the parent heckling was too much and he quit.

I've become a sports official -- umpire. Been doing it now for two years after my kids played and I coached, including one of their travel teams.

One thing I've become acutely aware of is how ignorant I was of the actual rules when I was a parent and coach. I always THOUGHT I knew them but it wasn't until I trained as an official, which included classroom instruction and on-field clinics that I learned just how much I did NOT know.

Now, as I officiate youth games (I'm certified in sanctions all the way to varsity high school/NFHS but not NCAA or pro), I've really come to notice that coaches today are exactly the same as I was. The better coaches are at least humble about it. The worst coaches have egos and often insist they're right when they're wrong -- their understanding is either flat-out wrong, they believe a myth (like "the hands are part of the bat" or "tie goes to the runner") or their information is just outdated (i.e. it might have been a rule when they played 20 years ago but the rule has since changed).

These coaches tend to be the ones who say "I always heard xxx, yyy, zzz." To which I always reply, "but did you READ it?"

Anyway, in this era of complete dilution of travel sports and rampant Daddy ball, I'm curious what your experience has been. I CAN say that now that I wear the officials' uniform I see things a whole lot more differently and cringe at my own ignorance years ago.