Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Nope. Feminism is defined by opening up possible life choices for women. If a man and woman team up and decide to allocate their marital income so the woman stays home, that’s a perfectly valid life choice.

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

Your point is well taken but being married does not automatically preclude you from investing in yourself. I went to law school while married, and have a good career and have a network of friends that I developed while married. These are all things you can do while married. In a healthy marriage you should know who you are outside of the relationship and not completely lose your sense of self.

I got married in my mid-20s and I think it was ideal for me. A few years out of college to build up my career (which has continued and flourished since I got married) but still young enough to be able to grow together instead of coming together as fully formed adults

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is men? Most women I know would have been happy to settle down earlier, but the men were chasing tail and unwilling to commit. The exceptions being Southern, Midwestern, or religious men, many of whom were locked up by college graduation.

This. I grew up in a metropolitan city and wanted to settle down at 22 soooo bad. But none of my bfs wanted to settle down. I was a serious gf for meeting parents but they just wanted to be free. I ended up marrying older to get what I wanted at 27.

Young men don’t want to marry anymore in general. Some do of course. Not sure when that happened.

I think the problem is men? Most women I know would have been happy to settle down earlier, but the men were chasing tail and unwilling to commit. The exceptions being Southern, Midwestern, or religious men, many of whom were locked up by college graduation.

I am GenX and grew up in the Midwest and was definitely raised with the belief that I should go to college, establish a career, and not rush marriage. A couple of friends who got married young (mid-20s) were definitely outliers. And no one was down on SAHM moms but everyone knew that the divorce rate was high (even though it was not common among my friends’ parents) so everyone was coached to be prepared to look out for yourself financially. Build your career, have your own bank account, fund your own retirement was a common mantra.

I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Fair point.

I lifted up trad wife propaganda, because that’s a very specific alt-right movement that has nothing to do with women making holistic choices, and it’s 100% about dismantling everything that feminism should be. The ability to choose to work or stay home or run off and join the circus is feminism.

Usually “lifted up” means to promote or propagate. Just fyi.

A synonym of “lifted up” is bring up, which is clearly the context in this discussion. But thanks for your feedback.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Fair point.

I lifted up trad wife propaganda, because that’s a very specific alt-right movement that has nothing to do with women making holistic choices, and it’s 100% about dismantling everything that feminism should be. The ability to choose to work or stay home or run off and join the circus is feminism.

Usually “lifted up” means to promote or propagate. Just fyi.

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Fair point.

I lifted up trad wife propaganda, because that’s a very specific alt-right movement that has nothing to do with women making holistic choices, and it’s 100% about dismantling everything that feminism should be. The ability to choose to work or stay home or run off and join the circus is feminism.

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Born and raised in DC, moved to the midwest in my thirties. First week I was there, I overheard this dude talking anxiously in a coffee shop to his friend about his recent break-up, "I just feel like I'm running out of time. I'm just so afraid that if I don't find someone soon, the next thing I know I'll wake up at 27 and be ALL ALONE and childless! I might never be able to become a dad!!"

ANd as I lived in the midwest longer, I saw lots of young sub 25 year olds with babies and mortgages (and divorcees restarting their dating lives at 43 when the kids are all out of the house) and I was like, dang I do not live in our Nation's Capitol anymore.

I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Don’t want to hijack the early 20s marriage trend thread but as someone who met my husband at 30 and was married with a baby by 34, I WISH we’d met 10 years sooner.

Raised in a major liberal city on a coast and ended up in the Midwest and I feel like so much of what my generation- millennial - was sold in that environment is absolute BS. As a girl in that environment I was raised to be independent and dating for marriage was not culturally cool. Friends all prioritized having a good time and while people did pursue education and careers, the idea that marriage was something to plan for and intentionally seek out was looked down upon. Wanting to be a SAHM was seen as foolish and waste of education and careers.

And FWIW I come from a 2-parent still married household, so had a solid example.

When I moved to where I’m at now, it was culturally VERY different and wanting to be a wife and mother was seen as totally acceptable and normal.

When I talk to my friends - late 30s/mid 40s- many are now realizing that they may have missed their window for marriage that includes bio kids…or they’re rushing to find ANY guy and it’s slim pickings. This is across all racial and social groups. Women that are beautiful and accomplished are realizing that the “good guys” - kind, considerate, thoughtful- are paired off or returning to availability after marriage and divorce, which brings it’s own sets of issues.

It makes me feel like we were sold a bad bill of goods. Go to college have a career, live life independently, date around, and then eventually find a man but don’t rush, don’t make being a wife and mom your whole personality. Don’t settle down too young because you’ll miss out on having fun.

Except…there’s nothing that I did in my 20s that was worth doing that I wouldn’t have had a good time with, with my DH. I was complete and happy before I met my DH, but life with my family is the best thing I could have ever done.

I was a homeowner and business owner before marriage, I’d traveled, so it’s not like my life was boring or sad…but I feel like there is definitely a narrative in progressive/liberal areas that having a family somehow takes away from all of that. Meanwhile being married and a mom has created a foundation/focus that I definitely didn’t have before. Even as a type A overachiever.

Because of when I met DH we’re likely one and done on the kids front, which I’m ok with I only really wanted one, but do wish we’d had more time together as a couple before becoming parents…because there are some things that only make sense to do when you’re in your 20s before you’re a parent.

Meanwhile a bunch of my friends will probably never end up with marriages and families they want. Or will settle for situations that they don’t want to become moms.

I’m still a progressive, absolutely support women creating the lives they want for themselves whether that includes marriage and kids or not. Young women should absolutely secure solid education, this isn’t some trad wife propaganda, and also I wish there was more balance in the discussions that are being had about trade offs. Time and fertility are finite resources.