Even when I went to college in the 80's professors were held to zero standards. They cared more about research than teaching. They were terrible at teaching. My tuition literally was just being used to subsidize their research which is mostly garbage and advances nothing.

I wanted to go to college and learn from a teacher. But I didn't. I taught myself or hired tutors.

I would rather learn from a teacher than a professor and I wish there were colleges with the sole purpose of teaching the students.

The current college model is trash.

Anonymous wrote:I mean, with the amount of debt they're expecting kids and their families to take on, it's not wrong to do so. My generation was given a constant drumbeat on college being essential and only really thinking about going to the best ranked college. And for many, it really hasn't worked out well.

They also seriously need to improve career counseling at colleges. The advice you get from these offices is often straight up wrong and can actually harm job searches.

Can you provide specific examples of bad career counseling?

Things accelerated during COVID, but so many college classes are transactional. Rent access to homework and testing materials for four months, participate in some written exchanges so the school can monitor for financial aid fraud. These set ups are common at community college, especially the dual enrollment courses that are a hs student's first college experience. Large state schools also rely on canned courses.

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, it comes down to how expensive college is now (thanks Obama).

Paying for something that can range from $15k - $90k a year, you're damn right people expect to get their money's worth. And with so many jobs requiring a degree, even when it doesn't make sense, college has become a means to an end.

+ 100

Back when people read philosophy in college and the like, the assumption was that employers hired bright people and then trained them. The real issue today isn’t universities but employers who no longer provide any training. This puts us in the situation where either your university now teaches project management and data analysis or the student pays for boot camps and the like later on their own. The fault is really the employers who don’t want a broadly educated workforce. They just want serfs

As others have said, it comes down to how expensive college is now (thanks Obama).

Paying for something that can range from $15k - $90k a year, you're damn right people expect to get their money's worth. And with so many jobs requiring a degree, even when it doesn't make sense, college has become a means to an end.

Do they mean “transformational” like a a huge wake up call to be accountable, work hard in class, and adult? And you may be just a so-so student despite the hard work?

Or “transformational” like a calm yoga retreat with a healthy drink? Fun and tasty?

Too many kids are thinking the latter.

The cost of college is the main issue. Very few can afford intellectual exploration at 90k/year or even 30k/year.

Anonymous wrote:I mean with the cost of higher education, education for education’s sake is a luxury few can afford. There needs to be a meaningful connection between education and what you get for that investment. Also there needs to be recognition that many jobs where a college degree was or is required can be effectively filled by someone with less education and employers are moving in that direction.

+1 Education for the sake of learning goes away when decades of saving and then loans are involved

Anonymous wrote:colleges treat students as a transaction so .. this seems totally reasonable.

+ 1

I mean with the cost of higher education, education for education’s sake is a luxury few can afford. There needs to be a meaningful connection between education and what you get for that investment. Also there needs to be recognition that many jobs where a college degree was or is required can be effectively filled by someone with less education and employers are moving in that direction.

colleges treat students as a transaction so .. this seems totally reasonable.

Anonymous wrote:I mean, with the amount of debt they're expecting kids and their families to take on, it's not wrong to do so. My generation was given a constant drumbeat on college being essential and only really thinking about going to the best ranked college. And for many, it really hasn't worked out well.

They also seriously need to improve career counseling at colleges. The advice you get from these offices is often straight up wrong and can actually harm job searches.

True, but none of that justifies rampant cheating.

I mean, with the amount of debt they're expecting kids and their families to take on, it's not wrong to do so. My generation was given a constant drumbeat on college being essential and only really thinking about going to the best ranked college. And for many, it really hasn't worked out well.

They also seriously need to improve career counseling at colleges. The advice you get from these offices is often straight up wrong and can actually harm job searches.

I thought this article in the Chronicle summarized well the state of college today. Does this resonate with your students' college experience? Is this less true at LACs?

It's behind a paywall but here is the AI summary:

https://www.chronicle.com/article/customers-in-the-classroom?sra=true

Title: Customers in the Classroom
Subtitle: Students increasingly treat college as a transaction. Who — or what — is to blame?

Initial Enthusiasm: Maiya Villanueva, a native of Fort Myers, Florida, was initially excited about learning and pursuing higher education. She dreamed of becoming a lawyer or entering medicine.

Shift in Perspective: However, her excitement has waned as she progressed through college. She feels that her coursework is repetitive and lacks real-world application, and she worries about the value of her education.

Frustrations with College:
• Bureaucratic hurdles, such as difficulties accessing textbooks, have caused frustration.
• Uninspiring instructors and repetitive coursework have made her question the point of college.
• The high cost of college has led her to work long hours and miss out on extracurricular activities.

Growing Cynicism: Villanueva's experience reflects a broader trend of student cynicism and disillusionment with higher education. Many students view college as a transaction and are primarily focused on grades and job prospects.

Challenges for Professors: Faculty members also face challenges, including pressure to pass students and the increasing prevalence of student cheating.

The Broader Crisis: This crisis in higher education is characterized by:
• Students' transactional approach to learning
• Faculty members' struggle to maintain authority and challenge students
• The need for a renewed focus on the value of education and intellectual exploration

Professor's Concerns:
• Growing gap between professors and students.
• Many professors view students as "lost generation" due to cheating, lack of reading, and disengagement in class.
• Some professors perceive students as "the enemy."

Wrong Solution:
• "Better customer service" is not the solution.
• Students may simply want to get through school as quickly and efficiently as possible.

What Students Need:
• Advice and mentorship.
• Strong relationships and role models.
• A sense of purpose and connection to their education.

The Problem with the Student-as-Customer Model:
• Treating college as a business can lead to a transactional approach.
• Public perception of college as a business can influence policy decisions.

Historical Context:
• Public higher education used to be much more affordable.
• Many voters are unaware of this historical change.

Reversing the Transactional Reputation:
• Colleges should focus on academic pursuits over nonacademic features.
• Professors should be transparent and authentic.
• Colleges need to demonstrate genuine care for students.

Key Takeaways:
• Students crave meaningful relationships and connections.
• Colleges need to shift their focus from transactional to transformational.
• Professors play a crucial role in building positive relationships with students.